HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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Double Delight isn't a bad plant, and there are much better actual plants out there, however the coloring of DD just can't be beat in the realm of bi-colors. And, they smell amazing. In Houston it may get a touch of mildew in the spring, or a little blackspot. Nothing tragic.
Double Delight is a garden staple and it's easy to see why it has stuck around so long. Everyone stops to gawk at it, everyone has to put their nose in it, and everyone loves it. It's a bit like having an antique car...sure, there are more reliable and more comfortable newer cars available, but the style and cache of this "oldie but goodie" just can't be beat. IMO, they certainly don't make them like this anymore.
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Cherry Parfait here resembles Double Delight very much. It doesn't have any scent to compare, but it grows without the fungal issues and keep pushing new flowers when Double Delight stops. If you love the Double Delight coloring and don't have to have the scent, but want a stronger grower with healthier foliage, try Cherry Parfait.
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Where does this colour changing ability come from? Would it originally have been inherited form a China rose like 'Archduc Charles'?
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Quite possibly. Some China roses deepen with age, heat and UV. European (and American) types fade.
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#4 of 9 posted
15 FEB 17 by
 jedmar
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I believe an important element is 'Rosa foetida bicolor' which is found in the ancestry of many (if not all) red/yellow bicolor roses. This rose has a high concentration of anthocyanin pigments (for red) on the upper side of its petals and an equally high concentration of carotenoid pigments (for yellow) on the lower side. These pigments are then found in varying combinations in its descendants. A good example is 'Rumba', where the red components deepen with time. It is thought that with UV light, biosynthesis of anthocyanins progresses in the direction of higher frequencies of light absorption (darker colours), while biosynthesis of the carotenoids progresses towards lower frequencies of light absorption (orange to light yellow to almost colourless). The resulting effect is that the rose seems to become redder with time. "The Chemistry of Rose Pigments" (1991) by Swiss chemist Conrad Hans Eugster gives a detailed description of these pigments and processes as relating to roses.
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That's very interesting, thank you Kim and Jedmar.
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Thanks for that. Interesting to know, and explains how the 'Charisma' in my garden works.
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#8 of 9 posted
17 JUN 19 by
kgs
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I hear that a lot (about Cherry Parfait being similar to Double Delight) but after comparing both roses in their glory at the International Test Rose Garden in Portland, I see why people say that and yet there's something about Double Delight's coloring that is more complex than Cherry Parfait. Maybe it's that there is more yellow in it.
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For me, Cherry Parfait has not personality or charm. The flowers and color change on Double Delight are much more elegant. It's strange how some roses have that indescribable something, while others of very similar coloring lack.
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Initial post
22 OCT 17 by
NikosR
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Is Albertine self cleaning or does it hold on its wasted blooms for the rest of the year? This is important to know for rampant ramblers like this if one does not feel deadheading a large rambler under the heat is an enjoyable passtime.
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The 2011 reference says:
" Later the bloom dies most ungracefully and hangs on to its dead petals. Not in a spreading way, but losing all oomph in the petal and just collapsing to hang like a wet dishcloth in the middle of the pretty cluster."
Nevertheless, I would not be without it.
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#6 of 11 posted
24 OCT 17 by
Jay-Jay
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On this part (Albertine is a triploid and sets no hips) of what You wrote in that article, I have to respectfully disagree as for setting hips... for it sets quite a few hips. See attached photo's I made today. Sorry for the less sharp photo's, for the light-conditions were bad and I didn't have a steady stand and or hand.
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That is so interesting Jay-Jay. You certainly have many hips there.
I've double checked where that information came from and it was G. D. Rowley, writing in the 1960 American Rose Annual, page 110 on Triploid Garden Roses. Among the other Wichuraiana roses he mentioned in the article were 'American Pillar', Dr. W. van Fleet', 'New Dawn', 'Albertine' and 'Emily Gray'.
I actually do have a photo of a miserable hip or two on 'American Pillar' and will add that to its file.
Perhaps it may be that a hip may not signify fertility? But I will be watching my 'Albertine' for hips this year.
Patricia
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#8 of 11 posted
24 OCT 17 by
Jay-Jay
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Maybe it needs our weather?
On the other hand, this year was exceptionally sunny and dry over here.
I'll harvest the hips and sow some seeds.
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#10 of 11 posted
26 OCT 17 by
NikosR
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Being triploid discourages seed fertility, not necessarily hip setting. Hip setting is very much affected by the existence of well developed reproductive organs on the flower.
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#2 of 11 posted
23 OCT 17 by
Jay-Jay
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The dead flowers hang for a while, but after a while, when the hips swell, the petals disappear. But maybe that was due to a lot of rain and wind.
Will observe this next year.
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If you blast the bush with a leaf blower it will remove a lot of the dead flowers. This also works quite well for Camellias.
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Interesting thought. Someone advised me to deadhead a "ground-cover" rose with a golf-club.
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#5 of 11 posted
24 OCT 17 by
Jay-Jay
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I can frequently be seen beating my monstrous Christine Helene with a long stick. I don't know what the neighbours think, and I don't actually care - by this I get rid of all the wilted petals without deadheading. And Christine Helene has hundreds of blooms. While hips form on the beaten part, she makes new trusses on new canes. So that's my low-tech recommendation, beat it with a stick. Love the golf club tip as well.
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I would have never thought about this tip (and the leaf blower) as a way to deal with dead flower petals as an alternative to deadheading a massive prickly shrub. I've avoided getting some of the larger gorgeous roses, because of the deadheading task, so Thank you!
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Just a couple of quick questions, What is meant when people say they bought a rose as a "band" and what exactly do people mean when they say they are "rustlers"?
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#1 of 7 posted
18 JAN 17 by
Jay-Jay
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They steal cattle! ;-{)
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In this case "rustled" roses are usually heritage or unidentified varieties propagated from abandoned homes, grave sites and the like.
rustled = collected
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A "band' is a deep square pot used for propagation, usually black in color. They are generally small and less expensive to ship than other sizes.
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Ah ha, that's cleared that up thank you. I've "rustled" roses from all sorts of places and once stole a sheep, so I've added rustler to my account.
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#5 of 7 posted
18 JAN 17 by
Jay-Jay
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I thought they meant Guns 'n Roses with the Band.
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#7 of 7 posted
15 JAN by
Looopy
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Does the term "band" come from "bandbox", do you suppose?
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From the 'Rosen-Zeitung' 1900, page 51:
"Einige schöne Rosen für das freie Land.
... 5) Marquise de Vivens, Th. (Dubreuil 86). Mein ganz specieller Liebling. Die Blüte geht zum Grunde hin vom leuchtendsten Rosa in weiss-rosa und schiesslich in gelb über. Sie ist sehr reichblühend und die Menge der etwas hangenden Blüten macht namentlich auf einem hohen Mittelstamm, einem überraschend reizenden Eindruck. Dabei wird der etwas an Veilchen erinnernde Duft an Feinheit wohl kaum vom Dufte einer andern Rose übertroffen. Sie ist nicht sehr frostempfindlich."
My translation:
Some Beautiful Roses for Open Ground.
... 5) Marquise de Vivens. Tea. (Dubreuil 86). My rather special favourite. The flower graduates from the brightest pink to white-pink and finally to yellow at the base. It is very free-flowering and the mass of somewhat nodding blooms makes a surprisingly charming impression especially on a tall standard. And the fragrance, somewhat reminiscent of violets, is hardly surpassed in refinement by any other rose. It is not very frost-sensitive.
[I think this is the only other reference to the violet scent apart from the Sangerhausen description.]
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Well, I have violets galore ....[nonsense deleted]
Reference added. Thanks HubertG.
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#2 of 13 posted
30 JUN 18 by
HubertG
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That's good to know that it can do well in dappled shade. I was thinking of trying this in a large decorative terracotta pot but in a position that wasn't the sunniest, so that information is useful. Thanks.
I have violets like weeds too.
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I do have 'Marquise de Vivens' (came as "Mrs Good's Special Tea") but my two own-root plants do not do well for me. (One in heavy dappled shade and a younger one in full sun.
[more nonsense deleted] .... Sorry to mess you around HubertG. Perhaps the time is getting closer for me to retire.
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#4 of 13 posted
30 JUN 18 by
HubertG
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No matter, Patricia. I've decided I want to give "Mrs. Goode's Special Tea" a go anyway, if Thomas' have it in stock, even just for the fragrance alone.
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If not, I can send cuttings at a suitable time of the year. It doesn't like my garden either, but it's very floriferous.
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#8 of 13 posted
1 JUL 18 by
HubertG
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Thank you very much Margaret. I'll certainly let you know if I can't obtain it.
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Bonjour,
Je suis journaliste à Feurs (Loire - France), ville où la marquise de Vivens avait son château.
Je suis à la recherche pour une publication future de photographies récentes de la rose "Marquise de Vivens".
Je suis aussi à la recherche de bouture (sans les feuilles) pour pouvoir la réimplanter en France, chez elle à Feurs.
Merci pour l'aide que vous pouvez m'apporter.
Sincères salutations.
François Perrot
Good morning,
I am a journalist in Feurs (Loire - France), city where the Marquise de Vivens had her castle.
I am looking for a future publication of recent photographs of the rose "Marquise de Vivens".
I am also looking for cuttings (without leaves) to be able to relocate it in France, at her home in Feurs.
Thank you for your help.
Best regards.
François Perrot
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If you send me a private message with your email address, I will send you some photos.
It was listed in the 2020 catalogue of La Roseraie du Desert, which has changed hands and is much smaller. I hope someone who bought it from them can help you with plant material, as sending cuttings or budwood from Australia is very complicated and expensive.
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Merci pour votre réponse.
Je viens de vous envoyer un message privé.
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I think it would be easier to contact the present owners of Roseraie du Desert, to ask whether they still have the rose.
Later: PierreLaPierre kindly contacted them, and they replied that they don't have it. Perhaps you could try to contact John Hook, the original owner.
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Patricia, your knowledge and dedication to HMF are invaluable - don't you dare retire!
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Thanks Andrew. That is nice of you. But the days dwindle down...as do my supply of marbles I think.
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You have millions of marbles Patricia. Marbles to spare.
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