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'Briarcliff' rose Reviews & Comments
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Could this rose be the 1926 rose 'Briarcliff'?
It was named as such in the garden of Mrs. Sheila Gravett when I took cuttings in 2002, but one or two of her roses were misnamed. It is a thornless rose and the paler whitish tint in the center of the petal seems to be fairly constant.
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It's been a lot of years since I grew Briarcliff, Patricia, but it looks like a good possibility.
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I thought so too Kim. Indeed I had it listed in my garden records as Briarcliff (with no question mark). But it never hurts to double check. I will move my photos into the 'Briarcliff' file.
Margaret - I have "Kombacy Pink" planted fairly near to my rose and I have mentioned they seem the same. So "Kombacy Pink" is now double checked too as being 'Briarcliff'.
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I was thinking "Kombacy Pink" was Columbia, which is the sport parent of Briarcliff - can't remember if the suggestion came originally from you or from David. Will check both next time I go to Renmark, which won't be till it's a lot cooler.
"Kombacy Pink" isn't a good grower in my garden.
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Columbia is a lighter pink. Briarcliff can often be nearly as deep as Fame, but it's extremely variable with the season and climate.
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Margaret – Yes, I suggested Columbia at one time. But I also clarified the suggestion with the proviso:
What you need to do is to take a decent sized stem, with leaves to a nursery who grows 'Columbia' and compare them yourself. I am quite sure some nurseries will still be stocking this rose. If you are going to say “Kombacy Pink” is ‘Columbia’, you need to satisfy yourself that it is.
(ps – I have sent you my file on our correspondence on “Kombacy Pink”. It helps to re-read and one can often pick up clues that were missed in the first reading).
Kim – As deep as THAT !!! I’ve never seen my rose that deep a colour. It seems as though I need to do some re-thinking here myself on ‘Briarcliff’.
Perhaps a New Year’s resolution might be in order. Give up this trying to identify these old roses and just enjoy them for their age and beauty.
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Yes ma'am, sometimes as deep as that, but Better Times and Briarcliff in my old garden could easily slide darker to lighter. Columbia remained the lighter pink. I'd hoped they might have sported to stripes like Modern Times, but none did.
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Ha! You have reminded me. My bush of 'Better Times' has sported every year to a pink (I don't prune much here) and it was this pink sport which convinced me that my foundling was 'Better Times'.
Here is a photo of my bush of 'Better Times' with one branch sporting to pink.
And the other photo is this same pink sport of 'Better Times' on the left, with Margaret's "Kombacy Pink" in my hand on the right.
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Hello, Patricia, Kim and Margaret!
It’s been seven long years since this conversation among you three about Briarcliff. There was once an elegant Tudor lodge in Briarcliff Manor, New York, just a above the big city where it is cooler in the summers. The Roosevelt’s and other celebrities vacationed at Briarcliff Lodge, and it became The King’s College, my alma mater. So the lodge for us was like a doting aunt, embracing us with her paneled hallways and warming us with her huge stone fireplaces. It was the type of place you dream about for many years after, with old radiators clanking their warmth. Yesterday a fellow alumnus posted the most beautifully written story: he grew up there, as an architect tried to save her, and as a firefighter watched her immolation. Out of this poignant story one hope emerged: In the town of Briarcliff, Mr Pierson had a rose business so big he sent 800 roses a day to New York City. I said to myself, I wish he had named one of them Briarcliff. Imagine my excitement to discover he had!...and then to find your conversation, and the respect formerly given to the Briarcliff rose. I notice that Briarcliff is no longer available commercially in the US and can’t be found in ARS’ Rose Annual. Do you have any idea how I can begin looking? It would mean so much to have this remembrance. We live in Princeton, NJ. And I at first had hope since it is listed here as in the Brooklyn Botanical Garden, but I didn’t find it in their rose data base. I pray you three will see this and enjoy the story of Briarcliff Lodge (with pictures) in this link: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/10750006/briarcliff-lodge-070312-molinelli-architects
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Hi Carol! Thank you! I hope you and yours also have marvelous holidays! What a wonderful article about Briarcliff. It's coincidental the use of "Modern Times" in the article as one of the Briarcliff mutations was striped and named "Modern Times" after Charlie Chaplin's movie. I have grown all of the available sports of Ophelia (mother of Columbia, the sport parent of Briarcliff) and Columbia and they're all marvelous roses. Not perfect and definitely "museum pieces" but excellent for their times. J.H. Hill discovered a sport of Briarcliff and introduced it during The Depression (1934) as "Better Times" as its sales would surely result in them. In 1951 and 1978, striped sports of Better Times were discovered and introduced as Modern Times and Candystick (Candy Stick). Both are virtually identical. I'm sure Briarcliff exists in some private collections, though it hasn't been in mine for many years. The "good old days" of being able to support 1500+ roses are unfortunately behind me, being twice the age I was when I grew it (and them), as well as water no longer being a plentiful here in California. I do, however, still grow the climbing sport of Columbia, the climbing mutation of the original bush which gave rise to Briarcliff. I doubt it will ever mutate to Briarcliff, but its size, shape and scent are very similar. Color was the main difference, dark pink (Briarcliff) versus lighter pink (Columbia). I will be happy to share cuttings of Cl Columbia if you can root them, or you can purchase Cl Columbia budded to multiflora root stocks, which may be better suited to eastern conditions if you live in the east, from The Nursery at Grace Rose Farm, listed here on Help Me Find. It isn't in their current availability, but I know they will be offering it as bud wood was collected from my plant this fall.
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Margaret and I live in Australia, so we are no help, but send our best wishes for your ‘Briarcliff’ search.
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Kim, Patricia and Margaret! What are the chances of hearing from all three of you, and so quickly! How different from my childhood to hear instantly from all over the world. Which got me thinking...I have been availing myself of helpmefind all these years...it’s time I contribute. So I may be the latest Premium member.
Kim, how fascinating that at one time or another you’ve grown the original and every sport of Columbia. I love that you still have the climbing version that Briarcliff came from. I would take you up on your offer of cuttings but since I haven’t yet had success with them, I will first try the nursery and hope to speed up the process, maybe? I cant get over the timing, that you just gave them budded wood this fall, so many years after the first conversation here!
Looking forward to letting you know how it goes!
Carol
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