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'Miami Moon ™' rose Reviews & Comments
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In the event someone thinks patents are biblical texts, behold this line:
"the pollen parent bears significantly smaller semi-double flowers of orange red coloration. "
I have grown Impatient on the farm, left to its own survival, for 20 years. It has never been semi-double, even in heat waves.
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#1 of 6 posted
29 JUL 22 by
 Lee H.
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I don’t disagree that Impatient looks rather full, but I think “semi-double” is sorely in need of a standard definition. HMF’s glossary gives two conflicting references:
From Roses by Susan Bales, p. 47:] 12 to 24 petals in two rows.
[From The American Horticultural Society Encyclopedia of Gardening, Christopher Brickell, Editor-in-Chief, p. 115:] Semidouble (8-14 petals)
If you are entering data on a new semi double rose on HMF, you’ll get a default of: (9-16 petals)
My old ARS Encyclopedia (2003, p. 444) defines it as 10 - 20 petals.
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In all case, even in terms of phenotype based on genetic studies, Impatient is a standard double-flowering rose. Everything about it, except its overt-prickleness, is fairly typical.
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#3 of 6 posted
29 JUL 22 by
jedmar
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The definitions of bloom size and filling have varied over time and by country. In many 19th century descriptions we find "semi-double" for what we would call "double" today; and "double" for today's "full". French breeders even today seem to see a semi-double in our doubles. Prévost in his 1829 "Catalogue descriptif" [one of the best of all times] had on the other hand: Simple (5 petals), semi-double (6-9), double (10-14), multiple (15-25), très-multiple (more than 25, but with stamens showing), pleine (without any stamens visible). HMF has set its default as: single (4-8), semi double (9-16), double (17-25), full (26-41 petals) - more in line with our today's understanding.
The same variation also occurs with size: a 3" bloom is often described as "large" in 19th century literature, we consider this medium today. The publication "Travaux du Comice horticole" very often mentions bloom diameters of new roses in the 1830-50s, which we can compare with the descriptions in other references. It seems that bloom diameter has generally increased during the past 100-150 years. HMF's descriptors for bloom size do not show a default diameter, but the applicaton is generally as follows: small (up to 3.5 cm), medium (5-7.5 cm), large (9-11 cm), very large (12 cm and larger).
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I think in terms of this patent, what is important is cultural standards of the source (Weeks rose hybridized from a J/P rose), and that Weeks and J/P would not have classed it as semi-double in commercial print. Time frame: 1980s-2010s.
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#5 of 6 posted
30 JUL 22 by
jedmar
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Not only is 'JACdew' not semi-double, but the same size as 'Evelyn Lauder' as per the patents (3,5"), not "significantly smaller".
There is a lot of obfuscation in many patent texts (one wonders about the persons at the patent office). There is e.g. one Danish breeder, who since years has been issuing roses with the parentage "unnamed seedling x unnamed seedling". Not really believable that none of his commercialized cultivars appear in the parentage. Difficult to understand why they camouflage breeding lines - it is well known that repeating declared crossings will never give you the same rose again.
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Most seedlings are known. I know this for a fact. I am glad you have seen what I have seen. Otherwise, it can sound like crazy talk. But it isn't!
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Initial post
5 JAN 10 by
Carrie
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In lots of sun in Southern California, it never stops blooming. It's quick to bloom in Spring and never stops, right through December, usually offering two to three clusters of 4 or 5 beautiful salmon colored blooms. If I actually fertilized it, it might do even better!
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Very unusual blend of pink, apricot, and salmon. The plant I have is only a year old but has been a consistent producer, although the blooms aren't as long lived as I'd like. Another gripe is that succeeding blooms have not been as large or spectacular as the ones it sported when I first brought them home from the nursery in Fremont. Probably this is due to the much cooler climate in San Francisco, where I live. I suspect this plant likes more sun and warmer weather. However, I would still buy this rose, even knowing what I have learned.
I will probably be transplanting this bush from the ground to a container, to make room for a larger bush, Sheila's perfume, which I just purchased. Later report to follow, on how it fares from this change of scenery.
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Here it is, October in Connecticut, and Miami Moon is still producing lovely new flowers. What a sturdy little plant! She did very well over the summer (first year) producing quite a few nice blooms. I will say the flowers blow out quickly and fade, but consistent dead-heading ensures more are never far behind.
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