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RoseForty-niner

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Initial post 16 JUN by HMF supporting member

Bug_girl

Reply #1 of 16 posted 17 JUN by HMF supporting member

Robert Neil Rippetoe

Reply #2 of 16 posted 19 JUN by HMF supporting member

Bug_girl

Mine came from an 80 year old rose garden. Not saying 49er was there that long but another rose or two were. This also depends on if I've ID'd it correctly. Sure looks like 49er to me! I took the cutting and rooted it myself. If you have any suggestions for what else it might be, please advise.	REPLY

Reply #3 of 16 posted 19 JUN by HMF supporting member

Bug_girl

Reply #4 of 16 posted 19 JUN by HMF supporting member

Robert Neil Rippetoe

The timing sounds about right to find a clean specimen of Forty-niner, and it certainly could have lived that long unmolested.

Your photos are still atypical.

We may have to think about it a bit and possibly bring in some of the more experienced OGR people in order to identify. We have to remember that many of the roses of this period were closely related.

Hopefully other will chime in.

I asked Kim to look at your photos and he agrees they are not typical.

Reply #5 of 16 posted 19 JUN by HMF supporting member

Bug_girl

Excellent! I would really like an ID that is accurate. I was trained in entomology and not roses, but I'm pretty good at ID if I have a good key. I will say that the heat definitely affects the coloration of my roses. There are times that this rose looks just like one I ID'd as Condessa de Sastago. (If anyone wants to take a whack at authenticating its identity, I'd love that too.) If you need any other pictures, a cutting, etc. please let me know. I have begun to love pernetianas and everything that looks like them. My ultimate goal is to help rescue roses, starting with those I find in my older neighborhood that are at risk of extinction due to no longer being in commercial propagation. Correctly identifying them is pretty important so I welcome all feedback. Can you tell me the parts that are "atypical" so I can apply that to my knowledge base? I would like to one day make a dichotomous key for IDing some of these roses so anyone could figure them out, but that's probably a bigger project than I could ever do.

Reply #6 of 16 posted 20 JUN by HMF supporting member

Robert Neil Rippetoe

See pictures posted from SJHRG, or older illustrations for typical coloration Yes, temperature affects color, but in my experience, to the degree illustrated in your photos. Gregg Lowery is likely the best resource for identifying your variety. Many of us have known this variety for along time. The fact that it's easy to propagate without budding is another clue it's not correct.	REPLY

Reply #7 of 16 posted 20 JUN by HMF supporting member

Bug_girl

I had ChatGPT analyze what I knew about it with some images and draft a "dossier" as it called it. It even gave it a cute found rouse name. I didn't know that 49er was hard to propagate. Thank you for the response. I can email a copy of the report or copy and paste here but it would be a little longish. Thank you so much for the help!!!	REPLY

Reply #8 of 16 posted 20 JUN by HMF supporting member

Bug_girl

Reply #9 of 16 posted 20 JUN by HMF supporting member

Robert Neil Rippetoe

There's a good chance your rose is something more modern. Don't be surprised if you never come up with a satisfactory answer. There are those that search for the true identity to roses they've found for years. In some cases they assign a new study name and enjoy it none the less. You'll find many roses posted that way at HMF.	REPLY

Reply #10 of 16 posted 23 JUN by HMF supporting member

Bug_girl

Reply #11 of 16 posted 23 JUN by HMF supporting member

Robert Neil Rippetoe

Surprise! I noted recently that Certified Roses will is offering 'Forty-niner' in their wholesale catalog for 2026. There's a chance you may find it at a box store near you. I don't know the source of their budwood but I know they have been working to do away with RMV infected propagation materials. it's an odd, but welcome coincidence.	REPLY

Reply #12 of 16 posted 24 JUN by HMF supporting member

Bug_girl

That's wonderful! Thank you for the heads up. Isnt someone using a heat method to kill the virus(es)? In not sure where I saw it. I am still working on a list of potentials for all my unknown roses. Just decided my Sexy Rexy from a box store isn't as advertised. No clue what it is but it has pink stamens. I need to grow it up more.	REPLY

Reply #13 of 16 posted 24 JUN by HMF supporting member

Robert Neil Rippetoe

Reply #14 of 16 posted 2 days ago by HMF supporting member

Bug_girl

Could that rose possibly be Piccadilly? I have pictures of it in my journal. Very light fragrance. Floribunda clusters, at least in my yard. 22-30 petals. Feathery bits on the sepals. How do I contact Greg Lowery? (Thank you for the help!)	REPLY

Reply #15 of 16 posted yesterday by HMF supporting member

jedmar

Gregg Lowery is a member of HMF. Look him up on Members and send him a PM.	REPLY

Reply #16 of 16 posted today by HMF supporting member

Bug_girl

Thank you!	REPLY

RosePrima Ballerina ® (hybrid tea, Tantau, 1957)

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Initial post 3 AUG 22 by Hamanasu

Would anyone growing this rose care to describe its scent? Is it citrusy, fruity/peachy, quintessentially rose, licorice-like, tea-like, clove-like, or something else? If you could compare it to other well-scented roses you grow, that would help. This is one of Fragrant Cloud's parents and the other parent (I think) was not known for its strong scent, so chances are PB is primarily responsible for FC's fragrance. OK, it might not be that simple, I guess, but is PB's scent similar to FC's?

Reply #1 of 6 posted 27 JAN by HMF supporting member

HeelinRoses

Reply #2 of 6 posted 2 days ago by HMF supporting member

HeelinRoses

I'm growing Prima Ballerina for the first time this year and I would say it has an average scent although it's fairly noticeable and a bit sweet when sniffed. Not especially fruity or exciting and I don't recommend the plant.	REPLY

Reply #3 of 6 posted yesterday by Hamanasu

Thank you for taking the time to respond. Much appreciated.	REPLY

Reply #4 of 6 posted yesterday by HMF supporting member

HubertG

Tantau, in their 1957 catalogue when it was introduced, describe 'Prima Ballerina' as strongly scented ("die stark duftende Blume") and that "Der Duft schwebt so intensiv über ihr, daß eine Vase mit dieser Neuheit im Zimmer sie schon von weitem ankündigt." (the scent wafts so intensively around it that a vase of this novelty in a room announces it from a distance). So, no mention of the quality of the scent apart from strength, but it does sound pretty strong.

Reply #5 of 6 posted yesterday by Hamanasu

Thank you. Indeed, many sources mention a strong scent, though your quote is interesting in singling it out as exceptional. I am still intrigued about what it smells of. Perhaps some other users will chime in.	REPLY

Reply #6 of 6 posted yesterday by HMF supporting member

HeelinRoses

Jack Leigh Harkness in his book 'Roses' said he'd have given Prima Ballerina a 10/10 for fragrance but he only gave its offspring 'Fragrant Cloud' a 9. Personally, I prefer 'Fragrant Cloud' - a good wafter in the garden but even so not my favourite rose to sniff.
I've been a little disappointed with PB. The flowers, unlike what I had expected (though there were copious amounts of them) didn't appear to be useful to bees, they looked pale, unspectacular and didn't have a very pronounced fragrance. To me it was more like an odour, sweet granted but something that you might find in a detergent or bathroom product. If you like those kinds of smells then I heartily recommend 'Mum in a Million' over PB. 'Mum in a Million' is a much better plant and its scent is complex and interesting.
'Reconciliation' by Harkness - now that has a beautiful smell - something like a freshly opened ripe corn cob with sweet rose, apricots and cloves.
'Caprice de Meilland'/'Best Friend' also has a clear, distinctive fruity smell - raspberry and blackcurrant.
'Fragrant Plum' one of my faves, smells at its best in early Summer and late Autumn (here in the UK) when the flowers are darker.
I have yet to test Prima Ballerina in the vase, to discover how pervasive her scent is, we're only in July but there don't appear to be any any flowers left to try out.
My favourite rose for fragrance in the vase is the mystery one which I'm trying to identify - please see my comments on the 'Rosenresli' (by Kordes) pages and the 'Norma Major' pages, HMF.

Reply #7 of 6 posted today by Hamanasu

Thank you for the further insights. I feel scents are still largely treated as an afterthought by rose breeders and growers. We seem to have moved towards a recognition that scent matters, but the emphasis is on intensity rather than type, and it baffles me to see that only DA, Meilland and Kordes seem to bother to unpick the fragrance types of different varieties in the detailed way you have done in the comment! I have been considering trying Reconciliation for years… I have resisted so far because for some reason I tend not to like the look of Harkness roses in the flesh, and my growing space is very limited. But your comment perhaps will break my resolve! I have been wanting to try Rosemary Harkness too, on account of its smell reputedly of passion fruit, but I dislike frilly roses with a vengeance and I’m sure RH wouldn’t last long in my garden, regardless of scent. This is a wild guess, but might your mystery rose be Fryer’s Cloud Nine? The colour seems to vary from light salmon to dark pink and it’s supposed to be intensely fragrant. Rumswood Nurseries in Kent seem to be the only ones who carry it. I don’t grow this rose myself (another one I have been resisting) but I have noticed that Fryer seems to be the breeder with the highest number of roses with a truly classical high-centred structure with reflexing petals, and I note on your comment on Norma Major that the mystery rose reflexed its petals.

RoseChinook Sunrise

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Initial post today by HMF supporting member

Ericchn

Prix resistance/remontance, Lyon 2025 www.worldrose.org/trials/2025-winners-4/4940/	REPLY

RoseHiawatha most recent yesterday HIDE POSTS

Initial post yesterday by KYBungalow

Also grown an the Dawes arboretum In Ohio.	REPLY