'Landperson' comments & questions

Good question. I just received it in the mail today, and was making my labels when I couldn't find it on here. I went back to their website, and see that they also list it as Red Cascade. It's very confusing though, because they say it was found growing on a farm in Alachua, FL...where Red Cascade was bred by Moore.
Here's the link:

http://rosepetalsnursery.com/rose.php?pid=355&cid=99&rose=Alachua Red / Red Cascade

Reply #3 of 3 posted 12 MAY 22 by Val O

I gave this rose to Rose Petals nursery with the found name of "Alachua Red Cl."

In the early 1990s I found this rose growing with other old garden roses on a farm in Alachua County, Florida, The owner said that she had grown it for many years and that it was not a modern rose. I had a small wholesale nursery and sold it as "Alachua Red Cl."

I met William Welch at lecture he was giving on old garden roses at Disney World. I had been asked by Disney to supply some potted rose to be used as props at his lecture. Mr. Welch told me that he also encountered a similar rose when rose rustling old gardens in Texas.

Red Cascade has a reputation as a "mildew magnet" when grown in Florida. "Alachua Red" does not get mildew.

RoseDainty Bess most recent 19 FEB 21 SHOW ALL

Initial post 18 JAN 12 by HMF supporting member

goncmg

Just have to vent here: WHAT IS THE APPEAL? Single pink roses are a dime a dozen, strong or not, delicate or dainty or not. I have heard the maroon/purple stamens/anthers are a hugely recessive trait which ostensibly sets this one somewhat apart, but even that being said, this one has surely appeared 50,000 times and more over in the seed bed of every professional and every amateur hybridizer........nothing about this rose appeals to me...........this is all personal. If single pinks ring your bell, well, this somehow has been your only choice for over 80 years with no end in sight................

Reply #1 of 6 posted 18 JAN 12 by Jon_in_Wessex

Reply #2 of 6 posted 18 JAN 12 by HMF supporting member

Landperson

Reply #3 of 6 posted 21 APR 15 by styrax

Reply #4 of 6 posted 18 FEB 21 by ....

comment deleted by user	REPLY

Reply #5 of 6 posted 19 FEB 21 by Palustris

I have and enjoy plenty of single roses, but Dainty Bess is not one of them. There is something about the color of the stamens that doesn't appeal to me. However, I have to say with respect that this rose is a survivor. I have spent decades rose rustling and searching for older roses within my community and DB is a very tough rose and was quite common until a decade or so ago when the the Knockout roses started appearing. Now most of the old roses like Dainty Bess and Aloha are gone replaced by Knockouts.

Reply #6 of 6 posted 19 FEB 21 by ....

comment deleted by user	REPLY

RoseMorning Mist (hybrid tea, Fisher, 1950) most recent 20 APR 20 SHOW ALL

Initial post 15 MAR 10 by Don H

The July 8, 1956 edition of The Saint Petersburg Times reported that the parentage of Sterling Silver was "a cross between the well known hybrid tea rose, Peace, and a grey blue-lavender rose called Morning Mist". news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19560708&id=n9ANAAAAIBAJ&sjid=M3YDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5601,3780064	REPLY

Reply #1 of 7 posted 15 MAR 10 by HMF supporting member

jedmar

Reply #2 of 7 posted 15 MAR 10 by Don H

Reply #3 of 7 posted 16 MAR 10 by HMF supporting member

jedmar

Reply #4 of 7 posted 17 JAN 12 by HMF supporting member

Kim Rupert

The patent for Sterling Silver states ""The male parent was the variety Peace and an unnamed seedling as the female parent - the latter coming from a strain similar to Morning Mist." Therefore, the seed parent is NOT Morning Mist, but a related seedling." So, while Peace was involved, the other parent was, per the breeder's official claim, a possibly related seedling to Morning Mist, instead of Morning Mist itself.

Reply #6 of 7 posted 17 JAN 12 by Don H

Gladys FIsher's patent for Morning Mist says it was "a self pollinated seedling from one of my own unnamed seedlings" adding to murkiness.

Others have expressed doubts about the male parentage of Sterling Silver as well, pointing out to Peace as being a convenient sire for marketing purposes.

Perhaps the answers lay in the Conard Pyle archives at the University of Delaware. Those were the days of paper correspondence so there is a good chance of finding letters from Gladys.

www.lib.udel.edu/ud/spec/findaids/conard.htm

Reply #7 of 7 posted 20 APR 20 by HMF supporting member

Michael Garhart

My personal opinion is that it is a seedling of Peace.

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.122337

You can see Peace-like new growth in that photo, but also S.Silver has broader petals and decent form, which was rather difficult to get from most lineages at that time without using Peace. Also, Peace provides color disambiguation that silvery mauve often requires to be present.

The other half is obviously the mystery meat. I think its from an early pelargonidin types for several reasons. First, its a shorter rose than most HT. This happened in many early HT (Ophelia types, for example), but not as commonly during the 50s. Although this can be partially blamed on weak vigor due to selection bias of a rare color, it seems unlikely in this case, because the internode relativity seems to contradict such an idea. So it was probably both short and weak, rather than simply weak. I believed a dwarf variety is the culprit, such as those found in many early floribundas carrying pelargonidin. Second, the timing is perfect for the when such unusual silvery mauve colors were truly possible from these early pelargonidin types. Orangeade, as an example, has an extensive history with silvery mauves. 'Lavender Delight' is a prime example. Orange Sweetheart, for example, was introduced during the timeline when Morning Mist (a possible relation or sister) was being conceived. Last, to me it looks like the parentage of Morning Mist was deliberately concealed to hide the rose responsible for the color shift, only offering the idea that it was bred from roses that could typically make a florist rose at the time. Yet, the petal count and flower size is more like that of an early flori or flori hybrid.

If I had to guess, I would guess 'Fashion' was involved. I would guess a red florist rose derived from the roses she had listed and Fashion, and that the result was an odd-toned darker mauve.

I would also hazard a guess that 'Morning Mist' is a self of this unknown seedling, and that when she realized the outdoor vigor was even worse than the florist rose it was bred from, she crossed it with 'Peace' and got a silvery, better formed rendition.

Well, anyway, thats my best guess with how much little information is available.

Reply #8 of 7 posted 20 APR 20 by HMF supporting member

Kim Rupert

Thanks, Michael. That is a very interesting and plausible supposition.	REPLY