HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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Initial post
1 JUL 13 by
 goncmg
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Immeasurably important rose considering not only that it begat Queen Elizabeth lines (and appears in many 60's-70's miniatures along with R. Wichuriana), but also the clear vermillion color, very unique for 1945. Foliage is lovely: bright and glossy, the plant often produces huge trusses of bloom and the scent is notable for me, rather spicey. Downside is the addiction to blackspot. Tantau was known for not disclosing a lot of his breeding parentages and I have always wondered if the cross that resulted in Floradora was not more complex, Baby Chateau x R. Roxburghii SEEDLING or something. Seems very odd that with that father as listed the plant would look so modern, everything about it, and that there wouldn't have been some non-recurrent grandchildren (Queen E's generation).....??? Does anyone have any opinions on this or any information?
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I too have been a bit interested in 'Floradora' but it has never come my way. I've spent an hour or so gathering reference page numbers for both 'Floradora' and 'Floradora Cl.' in case I ever get the impetus or need to look closer at the rose.
In the 1950 'Australian Rose Annual', C. H. Isaac, Victoria. said the parentage of 'Floradora' was 'Baby Chateau) (Hyb Poly) x Rosa Multibracteata (Species). So far it was the only mention of a parentage I've seen, but my search has only been a perfunctory one.
Patricia
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If I had to guess, I would hypothesize that the Rosa roxbughii pollen was not truly accepted, and that it prompted the female parts of 'Baby Chateau' to double itself into fertile seed. I have used a relative of R. roxburghii on 'Belle Epoque', which was pollinated between rains, removed of any male parts prior to pollen release, and then covered. The likelihood of impurity was really low, and the likelihood of an impure seed germinating was even lower. The only surviving seedling came out as a near clone of 'Belle Epoque', except strong in color, completely seed sterile, and extremely thin. It was a very weird occurrence. Vigor was oddly strong.
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#3 of 11 posted
27 OCT 15 by
goncmg
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Really interesting, Michael! Looking at Floradora I think you may have nailed it!
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#4 of 11 posted
1 FEB 18 by
CybeRose
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Michael,
Another possibility is that Floradora and its siblings are partial hybrids. Pollination occurs in the usual way, but the paternal chromosomes are mostly eliminated. This phenomenon has been observed in other genera, such as Helianthus, Solanum, etc.
Wulff (1954) wrote: "There is another remarkable fact to note. Without going into details I may state here that the three roses 'Floradora', 'Käthe Duvigneau', and 'Cinnabar', as well as the hybrid 46534, did not show any traces of the male parent Rosa Roxburghii in their morphology. The first three roses are true hybrid polyanthas, the latter is a true hybrid tea, indicating thus that the genes which are responsible for the respective characters of growth habit and for many characters of shape and size of flowers, fruits, leaves and spines are dominant to the allelic genes of R. Roxburghii. Only anatomical studies revealed a certain similarity and relationship to the latter species."
It would have been helpful if he had given us more information about those anatomical studies.
Karl
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Hi, Karl,
Interesting. You're right. That just begs for more information, with questions to follow.
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#6 of 11 posted
3 FEB 18 by
CybeRose
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Michael,
I have a list of possible examples of partial hybridization ... some old, some new ... that are suggestive at least.
If you are interested in the subject.
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Heredity/King/ExceptionalCrosses.html
Karl
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Thank you!!!
I bookmarked them for nighttime hours.
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link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s001220100746
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#9 of 11 posted
3 SEP 21 by
Plazbo
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I agree with the more info about those anatomical studies would have been nice. I've not found the thorns to be particularly recessive with my Baby Faurax x R. Roxburghii Normalis seedlings. Granted they are still quite young and may change but they look more rox hybrid (growth shape) than Baby Faurax. Will be interesting to see what happens with the flowering and hips when they mature enough. Flakey bark (not just browning/woody like in this picture attached) seems to be appearing on some of them around the base where they are thickest (all still very thin wood, small plants) but I may be jumping the gun on that.
I can't put too much focus on the leaflets, while BF typically has 5-7 and the seedlings 9-11, 9 isn't out of the typical realm for multiflora....may increase with maturity, will find out sooner or later.
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#10 of 11 posted
yesterday by
HubertG
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I found the following early reference giving the multibracteata pedigree in the 'American Nurseryman' of March 1, 1943, page 35.
"Rose Registrations. [...] Floradora. Hybrid polyantha. A seedling, cross of Baby Chateau x multibracteata, originated by Mathias Tantau, Ueterson, Germany, and to be introduced by the Conard-Pyle Co. in 1943. Plant described as bushy, upright, with abundant large, leathery foliage, vigorous and hardy. Cupped blooms two and one-half to two and three-fourths inches across, with fifty to fifty-five petals of red. Slight spicy fragrance. Moderate growth. Blooms singly and several together, continuously."
The American Rose Magazine of Jan-Feb 1943 on page 35 records that it won a Certificate of Merit in the A.R.S. Test Garden Awards for 1942, with no mention of pedigree other than its classification as a Hybrid Polyantha.
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#11 of 11 posted
yesterday by
jedmar
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Reference and award added, thank you!
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I read somewhere that Moore budded multiple copies of a cv on one cane of 'Pink Clouds'. Once the buds had made some growth, the cane was cut into suitable lengths and each cutting rooted.
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They're called, "stentlings".
It's a common form of propagation of roses. There is lots of info online about it.
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#2 of 4 posted
23 APR 19 by
CybeRose
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Robert,
Thanks for the info. I've been reading about "stenting", but it seems to be a bit different from what I recall Moore writing (I don't have the source, so I may be wrong).
Stenting, as I've read, involves rooting the stock while the graft union is healing. This is different from the old (19th century) practice of budding, waiting for healing, and then layering or taking cuttings.
Vibert budded China roses to new growth on a stool of Rosa reversa, then layered the shoot after the bud had begun to "push".
Variations on this theme borrow some of the "strength" of the mature stock, rather than relying on the nutrients available in the cutting.
Karl
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variations on a theme...yes, as long as it works.
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#4 of 4 posted
21 FEB by
zlesak
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My rose breeding mentor Elton Strack followed Ralph Moore's method of budding, healing, and then cuttings. I am concerned about virus and like to stent with first severing the rootstock and then grafting and then rooting so I don't inadvertently get my main rootstock plant infected from one dirty scion.
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[Named for Edgley, PA - not Edgely]
Everblooming Roses for the Out-door Garden of the Amateur pp. 53-54 (1912)
EVERBLOOMING HYBRID REMONTANT ROSES
Georgia Torrey Drennan
The only other sport of this exclusive family is the Queen of Edgley, or Pink American Beauty. In 1897, in a house devoted to American Beauties by the Floral Exchange Company of Philadelphia, at Edgley, Pennsylvania, fortune unexpectedly came to the rose growers in the form of an American Beauty, except in a distinct shade of pink, without a tinge of red. It was entered and won the Gold Medal at the Rose Show. The name of Queen of Edgley was conferred on it, but Pink American Beauty is the name by which it is best known. The colour is lighter than Caroline Testout, and deeper than La France. During the flush of its brief beauty, it fills an honoured position among the roses of winter and in out-door gardens in springtime, is a rose of imperial beauty.
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But the actual name of the town is Edgely, not Edgley. See, for instance, Google Maps.
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Catalogue of Ornamental Trees and Shrubs, Herbaceous and Greenhouse Plants, cultivated and for sale
by Thomas Hogg, Nurseryman and Florist, at the New-York Botanic Garden in Broadway. (1834) p. 4
Stadtholder
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