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StrawChicago heavy clay zone 5
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Good morning!
If I cannot find Evelyn, what should I try next? Zone 6a Coastal Massachusetts. This is for a prominent location in my yard. I am on a corner lot, and these will go on the corner where people walk by and drive by daily. Montauk daisies in the background bloom late August. Spring tulip bulbs bloom at the (hopefully ) soon to be planted roses. I am on several wait list for Evelyn. I was hoping to get huge bare roots this spring from Grace Farm Roses. Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated! Colleen
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Northland Rosarium has 'Polka'. It is a bit more apricot than 'Evelyn' and does not have quite the ethereal beauty of the latter, but also I think is healthier and, as I recall, has better foliage. It makes a spectacular shrub and would be a good choice for a corner location. Northland has kept their prices below $25., and their roses are selling out quickly. I have always received healthy and strong rose bushes from Northland.
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#2 of 12 posted
6 MAR 23 by
 Jay-Jay
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You have a point Nastarana, as for the health of both roses. You mean Polka as in MEItosier, I suppose.
One should consider the brutal prickles of Polka, when placing it in a corner location. (see my photo's of the prickles on HMF)
When ColleeninMhd is set on a real climber and an Austin, maybe consider Abraham Darby too.
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Not looking for a climber. But Abraham Darby is always on my list.
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#3 of 12 posted
6 MAR 23 by
Le_Not
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I don't mean to hijack the discussion (indeed, I would love to find a good supplier for 'Evelyn' too), but unfortunately I can't say I had a good experience ordering from Northland Rosarium. Indeed, of the forty-one roses I've ordered from fourteen different sources, the four weakest roses I ever received were the four I got from Northland Rosarium. None has died -- yet -- but they were definitely of poorer quality. Perhaps I just had a uniquely bad experience...
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It is a beautiful rose. Thank you for your suggestion
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A new company called Garden Roses LLC is offering 'Evelyn', listed as AUSaucer for something like $20.99. They have quite a list of non and off patent Austin roses, not alas, the ones I want. 'Windrush', anyone? 'Charmain'?
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I just looked up Garden Roses LLC and it is an exciting new nursery offering band-sized plants at reasonable pricing. The credentials of the founder/owner are outstanding, he is a rising star in the rose world and shows much promise as a hybridizer, as well as a purveyor of selected current rose offerings, including many Austins. I'm sure I will be ordering for spring 2024 from this nursery. I'm also going to contact the nursery directly to suggest uploading their plant list to HMF.
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#10 of 12 posted
15 OCT 23 by
Nastarana
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So, you believe this is a reputable company and one can confidently order from them? IDK about photos, also IDC, but someone has done their homework with regard to patents. 'Bathsheba', for example, is a recent introduction patented in some countries but not in the USA. I hope they will in future add 'Windrush' to their lineup.
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I haven't ordered yet, but I intend to, so will assess once the plants arrive. I have a good frame of reference for band size roses from ordering many in the past, notably from High Country Roses. Regarding Austin patents, the site (Garden Roses LLC) has a downloadable Austin list with categories of patents, it's quite interesting!
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Oh. I listen to Nate Fisher the owner of Garden Roses on Rosechat! I also put in an order for several of these particular roses a few month ago. I didn’t know they would be bands. But the price is very reasonable. I also love that he is close by in Pennsylvania therefore the shipping will not be horrible for the plants. Now, to find the right spots to plant my dream roses. If Nate is reading this, well done!
Edit: I asked for refund on all GRLLC. All my orders are canceled.
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Colleen: You have a beautiful house !! I grow 160 own root fragrant roses for the past 30+ years and OWN ROOTS are better in CONTINOUS blooming for a corner lot than grafted-on-Dr.Huey. My 12th-year own root Evelyn bloomed in early May in my zone 5, versus roses grafted on Dr.Huey don't bloom until later. I sold rootings of Evelyn to donate 100% to charities back in 2022.
The most CONTINUOUS blooming and big & showy and healthy in my heavy clay, zone 5 are: Version #1 Evelyn (before 2016) which is grown as a short shrub rather than climber, Prairieville Prince (big and thorny bush, myrrh scent), Summer Sun (gaudy color that's seen far away), Wise Portia, Royal Jubilee (can smell its fabulous scent 5 feet away), Lady of Shalott and Kordes roses like Bliss Parfuma. Ping-Lim roses sold at Lowe's are continuous bloomers. All Ping-Lim roses are impressive at zone 5 rose parks such as My girl, Calypso, and Kashmir.
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This red Yves Piaget x Bohemian Rhapsody seedling is named "Sandy Hook" since I got the rosehips from Robert Neil Rippetoe in 2012, that's when my ex-neighbor moved to Sandy Hook, CT. Her 6-year-old daughter got shot along with many 1st-graders. I grieve for that little girl. The girl's older brother was my daughter's playmate.
Sandy Hook has a baby-powder/old rose scent with acidic rain but becomes grape juice and red wine with my hard well tap water at pH 9. Grape juice was described by a few posters on its parent Yves Piaget.
Sandy Hook is very drought tolerant and compact at 1.5' x 1.5' as 11th-year-own root in my zone 5. It requires much less water than any of my 160 fragrant own roots. Never see rust nor mildew, but it has blackspots after blooming if alkaline minerals (calcium and potassium) are not given to neutralize the acidic rain here at pH 4.5.
Sandy Hook is much healthier in a fast-draining pot and watered with alkaline tap water than with my poor drainage heavy clay with acidic rain.
I never get poked since upper canes are 100% thornless, and rabbits don't eat it due to bitterness of its leaves. Rabbits ate my Abraham Darby and Munstead Wood instead.
Sandy Hook's scent is more stable than Munstead Wood, but with the same intensity as my William Shakespeare 2000.
I prefer Sandy Hook's delicious blend of grape juice and old rose (reminds me of a sweet toddler's face) over W.S. 2000's violets and old rose (reminds me of funeral home).
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Straw, I've added a note that the rose is dedicated to the victims of the Sandy Hook shootings, their names and ages.
Thank you
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Thank you for your time in dedication this rose to the victims. I'm praying for my ex-neighbor (Bacon) that she will have a grand-daughter to ease her loss of Charlotte.
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This would be a good time to send budwood to Steve Singer at Wisconsin Roses if you'd like to create more specimens to share or see what this variety looks like budded to multiflora.
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Great idea, I'll contact Steve Singer since the plant is very small, best as budded on multiflora (less blackspots for rainy climate).
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Robert: I posted pics. of your Sandy Hook rose in a Facebook world-wide public rose group and it gets over 200 likes in 2 days. Search in Facebook for Sandy Hook and it'll pop up this rose. I posted on factors that contributed to Adam Lanza killing 28 people at Sandy Hook in Dec. 2012: his mom's owning many guns, violent video games, poor nutrition and mental illness. Another tragedy happened today 7/30/24 with 3 children in UK died of random stabbing by a 17-year-old guy at a dance class for kids.
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Straw,
I'm glad the subject is getting attention again.
We need to reminded of these terrible events and all the lives they've affected.
I hope you get some specimens budded. it would be nice to share those wit some of the families, and others, if they are interested.
Thank you. Robert
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Are there several copies of this rose? Who has it? Is it still alive?
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It is still alive and in a few private collections. Possibly in 2025, Burlington Roses will have plants to offer.
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Agree with what you wrote: Often a seedling performs better once it has been propagated, exceeding the original seedling's vigor.
I got Yves seedling 'YVPXCHSL1' (bred by Robert Neil Rippetoe by his crossing Yves Piaget with his thornless Bohemian Rhapsody). Back in 2013, the mother bush produced both light pink and red blooms on the same bush. I was able to grow it from a cutting, and this cutting produces STABLE red blooms, a big improvement over the unstable color of the mother-bush. The mother bush also improved from producing both pink and red blooms in its first 2 years, to ONLY red blooms for the next decade.
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Straw, please choose a name for this rose and I shall post it accordingly.
Thank you, Robert
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It would be "Sandy Hook" since I got the rosehips from you in 2012, that's when my ex-neighbor moved to Sandy Hook, CT. Her 6-year-old daughter got shot along with many 1st-graders. I grieve for that little girl. The girl's older brother was my daughter's playmate. Your Yves seedling or Sandy hook has a baby-powder sweet scent plus a touch of grape juice, like a toddler's sweet scent.
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Please see, "Sandy Hook".
Any further comments to be posted there.
I can make any notes there you desire.
I will update scent as described.
Thank you, Robert
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Initial post
1 JUN 12 by
goncmg
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For years the topic of "dedteriorated/-ating" cultivars has been discussed. Deterioration through overbudding/poor budding practices, virused plant material, and so on (and I believe it is generally accepted Peace simply HAS deteriorated at this point)....does anyone else find Fragrant Cloud much less robust and healthy now than it was years ago? Having a tough time getting a solid plant. Tried mail order, not robust. Tried the garden center here and the plant is barely making it along. Several years ago I had a really nice, healthy first year plant that ended up with both mosiac and witch's broom (the later is not a virus I realize)....just wondering if anyone else has experienced what might be a deterioration with Fragrant Cloud...
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#1 of 13 posted
3 JUN 12 by
Jay-Jay
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In the Rosarium of Winschoten NL, the bed with Fragrant Cloud looked ugly and de plants almost defoliated by blackspot and just a few of the appr. 50 or more plants stayed more or less alive till winter. They were pruneshoveled and replaced by a better performing variety,
On the photo You can see the roseplants stayed tiny before getting diseased.
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#3 of 13 posted
4 JUN 12 by
goncmg
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Great yet sad picture..........this is exactly what my last few have looked like, very tiny, struggling, never get any basal breaks...........
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#5 of 13 posted
4 JUN 12 by
Jay-Jay
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These were all on rootstocks. And it was the last season of them over there. (The colours aren't right, for my camera has difficulties capturing reds.)
At first, after I looked them up that year, I wanted to plant them in my garden, but when I saw, how they behaved in the Rosarium, I hesitated and decided not to grow them in our garden.
A good choice, considered afterwards.
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Saw Fragrant Cloud in a pot for $10 at Menards, lots of blooms but bad-blackspot !! This is a dry week, so the store waters it with alkaline-tap water, pH near 9, which zaps out potassium. Other roses next to it are healthy: Queen Elizabeth, Oklahoma, Chrysler Imperial, etc. Fragrant Cloud was much healthier when we got rain (pH of rain is 5.6).
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Hmm, I have two Fragrant Clouds -- one is a "virus indexed" own root version from Vintage and the other a Home Depot denizen on Dr. Huey. The Home Depot rose is MUCH more vigorous and healthy than the other one.
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#4 of 13 posted
4 JUN 12 by
goncmg
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Going to try to hunt one down if I can at Home Depot or the like........my current sad little one is from a "better" garden center but the whole product looked awful and I bought one (last year) anyway.........this year's stock of FC is mostly dead at this nursery compared to huge and lovely (albeit perhapd doomed as summer ticks on) tiny pots of everyone else................every so often I find that a 1 1/2 grade of 2 grade rose "saved" from its wax and plastic sleeve or a "Home Depot" can really thrive. My current Royal Highness is gorgeous and vigorous and was on the clearance shelf 4 years ago at Wal-Mart. This year I have an Arizona from Meijers (basically a Wal-Mart) and a Mojave from a Menard's (basically a Home Depot) and they are bursting out basals, taking off.............without a doubt the best plant of Arizona I have ever grown............and what a nice surprise to see MOJAVE!
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#6 of 13 posted
5 JUN 12 by
Seil
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My Fragrant Cloud is a very weak grower. It's about 5 years old now and is still only 2 feet tall. I get one flush of a handful of blooms in the spring and maybe one bloom in the fall and that's about it. It seems to winter fine with little die back but it just doesn't want to grow or bloom much.
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Thanks for the info. I wish more info. like that is available regarding own-root vs. Dr. Huey for particular rose. How's the vase life of Fragrant Cloud?? saw that cheap on Dr.Huey for less than $5, was tempted to buy it.
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I have heard several reports on own-root Fragrant Cloud, and the consensus is that it's much better budded. Vase life is excellent, usually 5+ days for me, with a huge deep clove fragrance that can be smelled from afar. Really one of the most rewarding roses ever, if you can find a good plant.
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Thank you, BenT_TX.
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I agree most of the Fragrant Cloud out there is bad stock. I have tried it on multiflora (mail order from a reputable place), Dr Huey (big box store) and they have both produced puny disease ridden plant. I spray faithfully every week, and even blackspot magnets like Angel Face, Stainless Steel and Melody Parfumee are spotless, yet FC just sits idle and drops its leaves , like some incredible shrinking rose. I remember growing it many years ago when it was just about the most rewarding thing in my garden...bushy, floriferous, heat resistant, always pumping out new bronze foliage and clusters of big fragrant bloms. I recently bought one on Fortuniana, so far it's been rather sickly too, but it's only been 2 months so I'll give it more time.
Does anyone know a good source for this rose that was purchased recently? I'm determined to get a good plant of it since it one of my very favorites. I think I'll try Palatine this fall. I ordered some bareroot bushes from them for the 1st time this year, and they were the best I ever purchased, massive succulent root systems, plants that have grown lustily regardless of variety.
Edited to Add: I purchased a Fragrant Cloud grafted on Fortuniana last year from K&M Roses. In one year it grew to a nice dense 4ft bush loaded with big, strongly scented blooms. I can highly recommend K&M Roses as a source for a very healthy Fragrant Cloud, if Fortuniana rootstock is suitable for your area.
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Good to heqr. I am on my second fc and ready to give up. Sooo much disease, in pot or ground. Even with fu ngicide. I am over it. So eone is giving me a rouge royale, hope it behaves better!
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#13 of 13 posted
25 JUL by
HubertG
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I know this thread is a little old but I just wanted to give my two cents on the health of Fragrant Cloud. I've only had my plant since last October but it has been wonderfully healthy for me so far. I bought it already potted and didn't want to plant it immediately because I wanted to see its performance regarding black spot to avoid any regrets, and I was anticipating problems from the reviews here, but the foliage has been wonderfully clean without any spraying. I remember seeing a couple of black spots on a couple of leaves in the height of summer if I recall correctly but nothing further came of it. I'm in Sydney, Australia where there is moderate humidity throughout the year and other HTs do get affected by black spot. Maybe we just have a strong clone of FC here. Mine is grafted but on what stock I don't know.
Another thing I've noticed is that it has retained its old foliage well throughout our winter and is now putting out new growth when we aren't even into the last month of winter.
Perhaps it might be too early for a proper health assessment but so far I'm pretty happy with my Fragrant Cloud purchase.
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