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Initial post
3 FEB 22 by
robbie
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Cuttings of Belle of Portugal can exchange
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Initial post
20 APR 17 by
AJW
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The long leaflets and sparse prickles are not consistent with R. stellata.
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Initial post
20 APR 17 by
AJW
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The prickleless receptacle and long leaflets mark this as something quite distinct from R. stellata.
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Initial post
9 DEC 16 by
AJW
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This does not appear to be any form of R. laevigata, or even closely derived from it. The leaves are inconsistent with that species, as is the multi-flower inflorescence, but note especially the bud in the background: R. laevigata and its immediate descendants (even 'Fortuniana') have bristly receptacles/hips, and those of R. laevigata itself are conspicuously elongate. Here, the immature hip is bulbous and smooth.
My hunch is that this photo is of 'Alba Semi-plena', placed under the similar name of this unrelated rose.
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On my R. Alba semi plena, the sepals always extend much higher than the photographed, and are much more foliated. None of my blooms are opening that wide to show stamens.
What do you think of the reference?
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Whatever this rose might be, it is not Alba-semiplena, nor do I think it is any other alba.
The elongated sepals can be clearly seen in the photo by DWalter.
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.265219
Semi-plena has flowers of a kind of expanded cup shape. The rose pictured has flatter flowers, with, I think, a few more petals and the stamens look shorter and more numerous than those of semi-plena.
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Reply
#3 of 5 posted
10 DEC 16 by
AJW
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You're very right! I was so concentrated on it not being R. laevigata that I didn't check well against R. x alba (which I don't grow... yet). Actually, the other day I ran across a picture of a rose that reminded me strongly of it, but now I can't remember which...
The petal reflexure seems to be an artifact of the age of the flower, as the flowers behind (if they are on the same plant) appear more cup-shaped.
Perhaps it's a China derivative, based on the low mound of stigmas and broad, flat leaves. The stamens remaining yellow as the flower ages and the notch at the tip of the petal might indicate R. bracteata ancestry, but could also be meaningless (the matte foliage also argues against close relationship with that species.
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#4 of 5 posted
11 DEC 16 by
 jedmar
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I posted this photo from the Rosen Huber Garden in Switzerland. It is quite possible that it is mislabeled; i found a number of other roses there which were incorrect. Still, it has ist value as a record. Are there no other gardens where the correct form can be seen?
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#5 of 5 posted
12 DEC 16 by
AJW
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I can find very, very few references to the semidouble R. laevigata. In the standard rose literature, Austin doesn't mention it, nor does Thomas, nor do Phillips and Rix, nor does Beales. Only Quest-Ritson in his Climbing Roses of the World (p. 34) states "... a double-flowered form was reported from California in 1900." I'm a little skeptical of that without the original source, though, as 'Fortuniana' has frequently been unqualifiedly known as the "Double Cherokee Rose".
(I can find on Google Books such a reference from California in 1907, though the photo is not conclusive: <https://books.google.com/books?id=wxMbAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA463&lpg=PA463&dq=%22double+cherokee+rose%22&source=bl&ots=LA-Rf0e7Y6&sig=VV_42vB6LTi6_d_USDdTjPhzTFU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi33_Wp5u3QAhVSwGMKHRjtC_YQ6AEIRjAN#v=onepage&q=%22double%20cherokee%20rose%22&f=false>)
R. laevigata fo. semiplena as described in the Flora of China has larger flowers than the single, up to 10cm. The original publication is unavailable to me, and so the type specimen details, but someone might be able to access it from <http://en.oversea.cnki.net/kcms/detail/detail.aspx?QueryID=25&CurRec=1&dbCode=CJFD&filename=MBZW198104000&dbname=CJFD7984>.
Quarryhill's Database of Asian Plants in Cultivation does not list it at all. Unless R. l. fo. semiplena (in the strict sense) has been recently imported from China, I seriously doubt that it exists in the West. Furthermore, it seems to me that the double and larger flowers might indicate a hybrid with cultivated plants (or a cultivated hybrid), or at the very least a one-off mutation (which might occur, or have occurred, in cultivation).
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