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Plazbo 
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Dear Koolami,
Have you managed to find out who the breeder of 'Brindabella Golden Tiger' was since March 1, 2010? See main page note.
And while I am at it, do you, or anyone else know who bred
Brindabella L'Amour
Brindabella Gold Tiger
Brindabella Magnifica
Brindabella Raspberry Tiger
Brindabella Swirl
Some dates would be good.
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#2 of 1 posted
yesterday by
Plazbo
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it's likely
Brindabella L'Amour = Grand Siecle
Raspberry Tiger = Henri Matisse
Brindabella Swirl was out in 2005 (when they were still selling the other delbards under delbard names) based on web.archive
so unlikely affected by other post
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Could 'Brindabella Golden Tiger' be 'Camille Pissaro' renamed?
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#1 of 1 posted
yesterday by
Plazbo
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Probably more Paul Cezanne and Camile Pissaro became "Yellow Tiger"
Viewing their website on web.archive can see they started switching the delbard painters to "tigers" in 2009
Maurice Utrillo became "Tiger"
"Salmon Tiger" is likely Grimaldi
"Red Tiger" is likely Red Intuition
etc
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The section caninae is iregular. In the case of Rosa horrida 4+1 chromosome sets. It is a pentaploid rose. One set has 7 chromosomes thus 7x5 = 35; 2n = 35
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Still as clear as mud. If 2n = 35 then n = 17.5. Where are you getting n from? What is 2n supposed to indicate?
I understand that a pentaploid rose with seven chromosomes would give a total of 35. That part is clear. Are you sure you don't mean 5n = 35?
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#2 of 5 posted
21 MAR 21 by
Plazbo
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It's not algebra, it's not meant to balance like math in this case, more of a science short hand.
2n represents somatic number (effectively the number of chromosomes in a cell)
n (or 1n) represents gametic chromosome number (eg sex cells, sperm, egg, pollen, etc)
x represents genomic chromosome number
Look at rosa canina (just because it's the most studied of these types) it's usually written as 2n = 5x = 35
eg this diagram
www.researchgate.net/figure/Diagram-of-canina-meiosis-Dogroses-with-a-pentaploid-somatic-chromosome-number-2n-5x_fig1_49942591
but happens with other things, eg banana 2n = 3x = 33, like
www.researchgate.net/figure/In-situ-hybridization-to-banana-chromosomes-2n-3x-33-stained-blue-A-D-with-the_fig3_6074746
It's confusing because we also see things like 4n for tetraploid or 6n for hexaploid but those a different system, somatic number is written as 2n regardless of ploidy.
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Sounds completely bonkers. :D But ok. I get it now. Thanks for the explanation.
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#4 of 5 posted
21 MAR 21 by
Plazbo
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I agree. I'm sure it made complete sense when it was thought up within the context it was being used, in hindsight probably would have benefitted from a different symbol or something given the overlap that exists now.
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Uneven meiosis is really nutty. Even nuttier in the caninae clan than for wheat breeding. And to top it off, roughly half of the chromosomes do not distribute when the caninae type is the seed parent. This is why most caninae hybrids look a lot like their parent. When a caninae types is the pollen donor, there is generally greater distribution and intermix. So, the pretend breeding math looks something like x = (2 + [2])+1, where [2] is genetically immobile.
So, lets say you use Peace. It would look like (2 + [2]) x 2, which theoretically would create a 4+2. Inversely, if used as seed, then it would look like 2 x 1, which would theoretically create a 2+1. When a basic modern tetraploid is used as seed, the immobile set of caninae chromosomes essentially drop. So if you were to do [Peace x (Caninae x Peace)], the likely result would be a typical tetraploid arrangement of chromosomes.
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Being sold as Aurora in Australia
swanes.com/aurora-winter-rose.html
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A pity there are at least 4 Auroras still in commerce, and a Valentine.
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Didn't even need a name change. I imagine Aussies know who Sandra Bullock is.
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