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MelissaPej 
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Initial post
12 JUL 10 by
kev
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the rose pictured here is pink.Duc de Fitzjames is not this colour.It is a deep violet/purple and dark crimson red.
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The 'Vintage Book of Roses' says that there are two plants in commerce called 'Duc de Fitzjames', one darker than the other. Mine is lilac pink, similar to the flowers I see in the photos. My plant came from 'La Campanella' in Italy, but I don't know where they got their mother plant. According to Vintage the darker-flowered variety is likelier to be the correct one.
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Interesting, thanks for taking the time to sharing this insight with HelpMeFind. Just what HMF is all about - a tool to collect and disseminate gardening information to a participating online community.
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#3 of 9 posted
31 JUL 18 by
jedmar
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La Campanella has many of their Gallicas from Cour de Commer - the collection of François Joyaux. 'Duc de Fitzjames' in commerce is often 'Mme Lauriol de Barny', a Bourbon rose.
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I don't have 'Mme. Lauriol de Barny' in the garden and haven't seen it, at least not identified as such. I took a look at the newest page of photos of this variety on HMF, and, though I haven't made a careful comparison, right now I wouldn't swear that the rose I see in the photos isn't my 'Duc de Fitzjames'. My rose is a good tough variety with opulent blooms, coming easily from cuttings, has never reflowered later in the season, and gets some fungal disease after blooming, though not enough to do it any harm. Lanky in growth; thorny. I'm fond of it, mainly because of the very handsome blooms combined with the ability to flourish in quite poor conditions.
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#5 of 9 posted
4 AUG 18 by
jedmar
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Melissa, it would be very helpful if you could post some photos of your 'Duc de Fitzjames' on HMF.
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I'm a reluctant photographer (and this isn't the season anyway). I wanted to add to my description that my 'Duc de Fitzjames' sets hips, which are rounded oval, about 2cm wide and slightly longer, and smooth, the orifice not wide, sepals not persistent. They haven't matured yet so I don't know their color. A final note: my rose has long-lived canes, and suckers out, slowly and not aggressively.
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I came here to check on the color of this rose because last year it was a medium to light pink and this year it's quite dark with violet undertones. Would anyone know what would change the color.
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Is this rose on its own roots or is it grafted? Sometimes the rootstock of a grafted plant will send up its own cane that would be a different color than the scion.
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It's an own root that I bought as a cutting 3 years ago from High Country Roses. As he has come into full bloom, they seemed to have lightened a little, ut still not as light as they were last year. I will try to post a picture from a few days ago.
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This note may explain why the Musk roses were said to be strictly late bloomers (August, September). Being cut back nearly to the ground seems to be a good way to delay the flowering, and possibly to increase the display.
The Compleat Florist (2nd ed. 1706)
Louis Liger d'Auxerre
Of the Rosa Moschata, alias Damask-Roses.
Your Damask Rose-Tree, requires a good Kitchin-Garden-Ground, a hot Sun, and frequent watering. One Advantage it has, that 'tis not afraid of Cold, and yields Flowers several Months in the Year.
The Rules of Gardening injoin us in every Autumn and Spring, to cut the old Branches of the Damask-Rose Tree to within Half a Foot of the Ground, that the Eyes which there remain may give Rise to many new Branches, which being unexhausted, will produce Roses in very great abundance.
We propagate this Species by the Sucker, which sprout from it, and which being planted in a fresh Place, readily take Root, and in a little time become pretty Shrubs.
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I don't know whether someone else has already commented on this elsewhere. I have a mature R. moschata, planted around 2010 and left to grow. Once it got going, which took a few years, it went up and up, getting support as it got larger as its growth is lax, and has now reached the dimensions of a moderate climber. It has never gotten much pruning, just occasional light removal of aged growth, and has never been cut back hard in its life, but it blooms the latest of all my roses. This year it came into flower this month, July, and I think that's usual. (In comparison, this year the Teas began flowering in April, and the once-blooming roses, Gallicas and Co., in May.) It does well in our climate in the Italian hills, with mild temperatures, summer heat and drought, good annual water, historically around one meter annually, though recent years may be drier. It gets no supplementary water and blooms well nonetheless.
A couple of comments about the observations in 'The Compleat Florist': hard pruning at the right time of year likely would keep the plant shrubby, and also likely cause the plant to require more water for regrowth. My unpruned plant blooms tolerably well, but I'm not fussy about these things. Also, my plant, own root, has not so far suckered out.
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#2 of 2 posted
15 JUL 23 by
jedmar
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It seems to me that in 1706 they sometimes called our R. damascena as R. moschata.
We do not prune our R. moschata either. It grows high into an apple tree. Flowering season in Switzerland is August-September
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I got this as cuttings from a friend, along with 'Ayrshire Splendens' and 'Ayrshire Queen'. The latter two as found in commerce appear to be identical, as has come up in HMF discussion on these varieties, 'Ayrshire Splendens' having been substituted for 'Ayrshire Queen'. So far so good. But I also don't see any difference between my 'Venusta Pendula' and 'Ayrshire Splendens'. Are they two distinct varieties? I note particularly the dark growth, thorniness, flexible canes, pink-touched white buds, and strong myrrh fragrance. I would like to hear from anyone who can tell me of differences between these two varieties. Thanks!
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#1 of 1 posted
26 MAY 23 by
StefanDC
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The rose I've received as 'Venusta Pendula' does have somewhat the same coloring to 'Splendens', but does not have any myrrh scent. That is probably a good way to separate them, although there may be other differentiating characteristics.
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'William Lobb' must really love northern Italy. Like Ms. Piccinini I live in the province of Piacenza, and have a fine plant of this variety, though not quite as large and wonderful as hers. It's working on it! My plant is in part shade and is caged, part of it growing through an arbor-vitae, making a tall, arching moderate climber. Rose bloom this year is in general good, and 'William Lobb's flowers are large, shapely, and definitely purple. I wonder if it wouldn't make a good moderate purple climber for people who have trouble growing Multiflora ramblers (which is my case). I have three plants of this variety--it roots easily from cuttings, by the way--and the one that's doing far the best is in a relatively cool, moist spot, with some shade. The soil is heavy gray clay.
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