HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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Hi, This is a found Tea Rose, in Mar del Plata, Buenos Aires province, Argentina,past spring, October 2018, this rose grows in old houses all around the cities, and little countries (it's very common). Someone can suggest something about this rose?
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Hello Rafael,
My first thoughts turn to ‘E. Veyrat Hermanos’, but I would also consider ‘Mademoiselle Franziska Krüger’ as well.
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#2 of 12 posted
17 APR 19 by
 HubertG
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Whatever it is, it is very beautiful and striking. What is its fragrance like, Rafael?
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#3 of 12 posted
17 APR 19 by
HubertG
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'E. Veyrat Hermanos' is described in early references as being like a climbing 'Comtesse de Nadaillac', but 'Comtesse de Nadaillac' is also described as being very thorny, which this found Tea doesn't appear to be from the photos, ruling 'Comtesse de Nadaillac' out.
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The Tea book says E Veyrat Hermanos was used as an understock for a while, which may be one reason why it turns up in old gardens.
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This rose is showing features and quirks often seen on 'E. Veyrat Hermanos'. Apart from the form and colour range of the blooms, it is showing a number of blooms that are balled, with browned outer petals.
I've noticed that as the petal-packed buds of EVH develop, the sepals reflex away from the bud very early - before the petals have had any chance to harden off a little and this leaves the thin, soft, outer petals exposed and unprotected from weather and temperature fluctuations. As a result the outer petals easily adhere to each other, browning off and preventing the bud from opening well.
This seems to be worse in spring than summer and autumn, and especially bad when cut back hard in winter when the hard pruning stimulates extravagant flower production, many of which are imperfect - balled, browned and split.
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#6 of 12 posted
18 APR 19 by
HubertG
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But 'E. Veyrat Hermanos' is a climber, isn't it? Rafael's rose doesn't appear to be a climber.
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In my garden where it has nothing to climb on, it just flops over on itself, just as Rafael’s photos show. In my cool, damp garden I have a common (very common!) name for this rose: Souvenir de canine’s testicles. I only keep it to know it.
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This seems almost a repeat of the discussion we had some time ago about the roses Bassoues Tea and now Isabella Ducrot, doesn't it? These all need to be DNA tested to figure out what they are.
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How much does it cost to DNA test a cultivar?
And how much of a parentage database already exists?
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I can't answer either question. What I would suggest would be to submit all the various roses concerned to be tested against each other.
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Thank you Patricia for your response!, my first thoughts when I saw this wonderful rose turns to E. Veyrat Hermanos, even though I never see it personally, I only know it by photograph, but E. V. H. was in old catalogues here in Argentina, so I always thought that one day I would find it.
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Found Tea Rose, may be Mme Lombard?
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Just wait. ‘Mme. Lambard’ sets many huge hips.
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#3 of 6 posted
8 OCT 18 by
Jay-Jay
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What a delightful rose, Rafael!
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Gorgeous Rafael!
Do you have a close-up photo of the bud in profile?
Does this rose open to show stamens or is there a knot of short petals in the centre?
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#5 of 6 posted
10 OCT 18 by
HubertG
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My comment somehow disappeared. I said it looked like Maman Cochet, but I couldn't be sure.
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You did say that HubertG. and I particularly noted your comment. I thought that you were aware that Maman Cochet does not set hips and deleted the comment yourself.
Rafael, I should have been clearer. With time the hips grow really large - you just have to leave them to grow. Here the bushes eventually almost look like a fruit tree laden with small red apples. I enjoy deadheading at last as the new spring growth pushes out, hearing the thump, thump, thump as the hips hit the ground.
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#7 of 6 posted
11 OCT 18 by
HubertG
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I can't see any hips in the photos. There are a couple of buds in the third photo (at the top towards the left) which appear to have a flattened base to the receptacles, but it's not distinct. That also suggests Maman Cochet to me.
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I just wanted to comment that I really like the new study name. If more foundlings were given attractive study names, such as in this case, more people would be likely to want to grow them, especially if they end up being reintroduced into commerce.
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Pity about where "Guppy St" was found...
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#2 of 10 posted
27 APR 18 by
HubertG
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LOL, that's what I mean. These roses need to be classified logically but a little aesthetic foresight might go a long way.
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It's not just study names that are problematic. There are plenty of registration names which are about as poetic as a bowl of cold tripe.
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You could refer to it as "Poecilia thoroughfare" if you want it to sound posher.
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#5 of 10 posted
27 APR 18 by
HubertG
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LOL, maybe even Mme Poecilia de Thoroughfaire.
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Or even "Mme Poecilia de Thoroughfaire, Comtesse de la Rue".
That would knock Mme Wagram off its perch for silliest name. ;)
Edit: By the way, I've always wanted to grow 'Ferdinand Pichard', just so I could nickname it "Fred the Stripey Cabbage".
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#7 of 10 posted
27 APR 18 by
HubertG
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Hahahaha!
Patricia, is it too late to change my Dr Grill rose to 'Madame la Docteure Barb Ecué?
And sorry Rafael for hi-jacking your listing a bit. You have a nice rose with a lovely name. I hope you get some good suggestions for it.
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"Guppy St" is probably Mrs Harold Brocklebank, which isn't much of an improvement. But it's a wonderful rose
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Thank you HubertG!!, and the poor Juani she does not even know that I put her name to a rose, ( I should probably tell her....)
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#10 of 10 posted
30 APR 18 by
HubertG
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Rafael, yes, I'm sure she would be delighted!
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Rafael - I have added a couple of ideas to the main page for "Juani de Temperley". They are just roses to consider in the search for its true name.
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Hi Patricia, I think it's not "Dr. Grill", "Juani" does not have as many petals, and they are not so rounded, Juani always open like a star
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