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Geoff Crowhurst 
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Initial post
1 MAY 09 by
Cass
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Has anyone compared Prof. Ganiviat to the rose in commerce in the USA as Archduke Charles? As a young plant, the rose in commerce as Archduke Charles was vaguely credible as a china, primarily because of the scent of the blooms, which is like cherry candy. The blooms color is very distinct: lighter at the center, with lovely deeper red outer petals, the whole bloom aging to deep carmine red. Here's a one in a thousand:
http://rosefog.us/TemporaryImages/ArchdukeCharlesIdealized.jpg
But this spring it shot up a stout, thick, five foot/ 1.5m basal topped by a typical Tea inflorescence. It's armed with red prickles on new wood. In old cemeteries, it is very upright. I posted a huge image of that basal which, because it's so large, shows the shape of the buds and inflorescence (I planted the rose too close to Lavender Dream, which is the other foliage you see in this image.):
http://rosefog.us/TemporaryImages/ArchdukeCharlesNewBasalHuge.jpg
The leaflets are rounded, shiny, leathery and large - - one is almost 4 inches/10cm - - and rather modern looking.
I've confirmed that Professeur Ganiviat was introduced into commerce in the USA in 1891.
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This seems to be the same rose that has been called Princesse de Sagan in Australia for some time. I have seen very old plants growing in the Kew Cemetery in Melbourne, where it has grown to well over 6 feet in height, and about the same in width. One was cut down quite hard last season, but the plant responded surprisingly well, and bloomed exceptionally in late autumn. The leathery foliage looks as if survives our occasional scorching days in summer without trouble. The flowers last well when cut. It also strikes well from cuttings, so all in all seems a very desirable rose. I can't see how it has been called a China rose.
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Yes I ha e noticed that confusion over names too.Both are exceptjo ally beautifully roses and
are on the opposite ends of the red spectrum.They deserve to grown and known by their real names.
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I am interested in this rose as Alister Clark donated this rose to the Ivanhoe Horticultural Society in Melbourne, of which I am a member (president 2010-11), and I am working on a history of the Society, which was formed in 1906. I had thought Roseate extinct, but as one member has listed it as a favorite, maybe it is still out there somewhere. I would certainly like to know.
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Bad luck Geoff - I think you've fallen victim (as I did several times) to someone playing s bs, who thinks the only good rose is a dead rose, and gives Favourite votes to probably-extinct ones.
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Actually, that's a good idea for an enhancement - disallow favorite voting for extinct plants.
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Yes, thank you. And if it could be done easily, I'd recommend deleting all votes from that person. I assume there was only one.
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I am a volunteer at the Alister Clark Memorial Garden at Bulla, Victoria, where the rose has been identified by a rosarian from WA as 'Mrs R M Finch'. I am trying to locate the real 'Australia Felix'. R G Elliott's The Australiasian Rose Book (of 1928 or earlier) describes 'Australia Felix' as HT, 'Soft pink, outer petals deep reddish pink. Vigorous, free flowering, good foliage.' The description is accompanied by a B&W photo of 8 individual blooms in what looks like a silver vase. The photo from Sangerhausen seems much closer to the above description than the others, which look like a polyantha rose. I will be checking early editions of the Australian Rose Annual for another description. Any help with identification & location of plants would be appreciated.
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Geoff - I cannot help with location of the original 'Australia Felix', but have uploaded another old photo - from The 1929 Australian Rose Annual. There is no detail of foliage but the flowers are reasonably clear.
The Australian Rose Annual 'Australia Felix' text references have already been added to HMF refs thanks to Patricia Routley.
Also information from Susan Irvine's writings, telling of the origins of the rose in commerce under the name 'Australia Felix' today ("Plant came to us (without a name) from the Alstons and Eve Murray. Fits the description of ‘Australia Felix’ and distinctive shape of petals corresponds with old photographs. ‘Sweet Seventeen’ and ‘Fancy Free’ seem to be similar, and until our plant was identified I called it ‘Alister Clark’s Pink Floribunda’.")
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