"Brooks Purple" rose reviews and comments

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"Brooks Purple" rose Reviews & Comments

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Discussion id : 114-351 most recent 7 DEC 18 HIDE POSTS

Initial post 7 DEC 18 by bibi

It is very similar to the one I grow in my garden under the same of "petite renoncule violette" sold by Francia Thauvin in France. It is similar to the "shell rose " too !	REPLY

Discussion id : 84-897 most recent 26 JUN 15 SHOW ALL

Initial post 13 MAY 15 by HMF supporting member

Cà Berta

It looks to me as Brooks rose, Mary Lawrence’s Shell rose and the rose I found in Samos are the same. They look like the rose described by Prevost in Catalogue descriptif, methodique et raisonné 1829 page 120 “494 Provins a fleur pourpre violet, marbrée. Boisguillaume; semis de 1822, première floraison en 1826. Fleur moyenne, très-pleine (220 à 260 pétales), bombée, à 4 ou 5 compartiments, pourpre foncé, nuance de lilas, de rouge et de violet ardoisé. Styles 60 à 110. Affinité: Triomphe d’Europe. Différence principale: Fleur plus grande.”, bred by Prevost in 1822.

Frederic II de Prusse and Red Runaround look rather different.

Reply #1 of 9 posted 9 JUN 15 by HMF supporting member

scvirginia

Another found rose that looks similar to me is "Ruth's Steeple Rose". It's difficult to say for sure with only one photo of each rose in the photos section(s), though... http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.88126 It would be nice if someone could grow some of these roses side by side... Virginia	REPLY

Reply #2 of 9 posted 14 JUN 15 by HMF supporting member

Cà Berta

As you said, It is difficult to judge with only one photo ...still, I agree that the resemblance is strong!
Unfortunatly it is difficult to grow side by side these roses however, hoping it might help, I am going to load many photos of Samos'rose depicting as many details as possible in the page of the rose Provins a fleur pourpre violet by Prevost whose description applies very well to this found rose.

Reply #3 of 9 posted 14 JUN 15 by HMF supporting member

scvirginia

That's a good idea; I'm guessing you will note in the description that it's a found rose whose ID is uncertain? They are both beautiful roses, but there are other purple/crimson roses that could be candidates... Also Prevost's rose is supposed to be marbled or mottled, and I don't see that in the Samos rose photos? Do you see the mottling, and it just isn't showing up in the photos? Virginia	REPLY

Reply #6 of 9 posted 15 JUN 15 by HMF supporting member

Cà Berta

I am aware that they are found roses and that it is very difficult to find, among the tenth of thousands of rose varieties, which they are ... The goal might be far away but I am trying to get closer by successive approximations. The hypothesis that Samos’s rose is Provins a fleur pourpre violet by Prevost is already the result of a long search which took into account some elements: the colour, the number of petals, the shape of the bloom (convex, quartered). The fact that in HMF similar roses are very few, are found roses and are scattered around the world suggested that it might be a very old rose.
Up to now the rose Provins a fleur pourpre violet by Prevost is the best approximation I could get. Still, as you noticed, the “marbled” characteristic is not so evident. I can not judge whether it is there and it is difficult to see because of the dark colours or it is the result of my “wishful thinking”. I will add a photo ...

Reply #7 of 9 posted 17 JUN 15 by HMF supporting member

scvirginia

Yes, the marbling is not evident as I'd expect to see from a rose with 'Marbre' in the name. I am adding lots of older references to HMF, and I saw a nice list somewhere of maybe 30 or so darker colored garden roses (I think they were all Gallica-types, but don't hold me to that!). I will see if I can re-find that list, if you think it may spark any ideas.

I'm very sorry if I sounded like I thought you just picked the first purple rose and decided that was it; I didn't think that; I figured that you had, as you said, given it careful consideration. As you say, there are quite a few purple, once-blooming, found roses out there. (I have one myself that is probably a Hybrid China, since the new growth has a spicy/peppery scent.)

It occurs to me to wonder about that rose name, though. 'Provins A Fleurs Pourpre Violet, Marbrée'. It almost seems as though there ought to be a 'Provins A Fleurs Pourpre Violet' from which Prevost's version needed to be distinguished?

As I add these references, I will keep your rose (and mine) in mind. I am impressed with the quality of your photos, so any reference giving details of growth, foliage, thorns, habit, should be "compare-able" with those pictures. I forget if you said whether the bloom is small, medium, or large?

Virginia

Reply #8 of 9 posted 18 JUN 15 by HMF supporting member

Cà Berta

I would greatly appreciate to read the list of dark coloured garden roses! Unfortunately the possibility that we have to recognize a found rose is related to the number or roses we know! Widening the knowledge, thus, helps a lot ..!
Actually the hypothesis that I proposed for Samos’s rose, was based on the presence of the two less common (and thus more selective) characteristics (convex and quartered) but my search was limited to one old source (Prevost’s Catalogue). Among the roses described in that book, Provins a fleur pourpre violet, marbrée is the most similar. There is another Provins a fleur pourpre but is Provins a fleur pourpre, panachée de blanc, a sport of Ombrée Perfaite by Vibert (by the way, Prevost described this latter “455, Ombrée Perfaite, V. Fleur moyenne pleine, régulière, pourpre violet, ombrée” ).

The diameter of the bloom is about 5-6 cm.

Bruna

Reply #9 of 9 posted 26 JUN 15 by HMF supporting member

scvirginia

I found the list! It was in a book called 'Manuel complet du jardinier, maraicher, pépiniériste, botaniste, fleuriste et paysagiste', Vol 4, by Louis Claude Noisette, 1826.

There are many lists of different rose classes, but the one that caught my attention was a long list of Rosiers de Provins, divided by colors. The 1st part of the list is 'Fleurs pourpres', the 2nd part is 'Fleurs violettes', the 3rd is 'Fleurs veloutées', the 4th is 'Fleurs roses ou carnées', the 5th is 'Fleurs blanches'. Here's a link to the Google book, free full-text: https://books.google.com/books?id=IVAUAAAAQAAJ

Here are the first two sections- purple and violet. I'm planning to add these descriptions to their rose records as needed, with translations.

* Fleurs pourpres.
1. Pourpre double, duchesse d'Orléans, lustre d'église. Fleurs pourpres, peu nombreuses, moyennes. Arbrisseau élevé.
2. Roi des pourpres, renoncule noirâtre. Fleurs d'un pourpre foncé, moyennes, très-doubles, se succédant long-temps.
3. Belle Herminie. Fleurs semi-doubles, d'un pourpre vif, ponctuées de blanc.
4. Gloria-mundi. Fleurs rouges, très-belles. Sous-variété à fleurs roses.
5. Roi de France. Fleurs très-grandes, pourpres, d'une couleur très-intense; boutons allongés.
6. Pavot, grandesse royale. Fleurs d'un pourpre clair, ayant plus de deux pouces de diamètre, les plus grandes de l'espèce.
7. Belle Thérèse. Fleurs grandes, très-doubles, nombreuses ,d'un pourpre un peu violet.
8. Raucourt. Fleurs grandes, pourpres, à pétales chiffonnés.
9. Cocarde pourprée. Fleurs grandes, d'un pourpre foncé, nuancées de pourpre clair.
10. Hervy. Fleurs grandes, d'un pourpre nuancé, plus clair à la circonférence.
11. De Pronville. Fleurs grandes, très-doubles, d'un pourpre carmin éclatant.
12. Capricorne. Fleurs belles, très-régulières, très-doubles, d'un pourpre velouté intense.
13. Temple d'Apollon, cramoisissimo de Lille. Fleurs très-grandes, semi-doubles, pourpres, superbes.
14. Carmin brillant. Fleurs moyennes, d'un pourpre clair, carmin au centre.
15. A gros fruits. Remarquable par ses fruits très-gros et oblongs.
16. Petite panachée. Fleurs nombreuses, très-doubles, nuancées et marbrées.
17. Pourpre des Hollandais. Fleurs semi-doubles, grandes, pourpres.
18. Eucharis. Fleurs semi-doubles, grandes, nombreuses, d'un pourpre vif.
19. Pourpre charmant strié. Fleurs pourpres, striées de blanc.
20. Pulmonaire. Fleurs moyennes, semi-doubles, pourpres, avec une tache de pourpre clair à l'onglet des pétales.
21. Grande Henriette. Fleurs très-doubles, très-régulières, d'un pourpre clair, à pétales finement nuancés.
22. Antoinette. Elle ressemble à la précédente, mais elle est beaucoup plus grande.
23. Pleine lune. Fleurs régulières, arrondies, très-doubles, d'un pourpre violet éclatant.
24. Belle satinée. Fleurs très-doubles, d'un pourpre clair, satinées de blanc.
25. Merveille du monde. Fleurs grandes, doubles, carnées.
26. Ballon. Fleurs très-doubles, à pétales renversés en dehors, d'un cramoisi pourpre, nuancé d'une teinte plus claire; boutons orbiculaires.
37. Mithridate. Fleurs superbes, larges, bien faites, d'un rouge brillant. Les extrémités de ses rameaux sont rouges, caractère très-rare dans les provins.
28. Archidamie. Fleurs larges, très-doubles, bien faites, d'un rouge vif, superbes.
29. Pourpre couronnée. Fleurs moyennes, doubles, d'un pourpre violet: au centre de la fleur une petite couronne formée par les étamines; feuillage profondément denté.
30. Ornement des rouges. Fleurs grandes, doubles, d'un rouge vif, nombreuses, s'ouvrant très-bien.
31. Leónidas. Fleurs aussi grandes et de la même forme que la rose pivoine, mais d'un coloris plus vif.
32. Rien ne me surpasse. Fleurs bien faites, très-grandes, superbes, d'un très-beau rouge.
33. Reine de Prusse. Fleurs moyennes, doubles, d'un rouge éclatant.
34. La convenable. Fleurs très-grandes, très-doubles, d'un fort beau rouge.
35. Cocarde jacobée. Fleurs grandes, rouges, très-belles, ayant dans le centre une couronne formée par les étamines.
36. Jézabèle. Fleurs moyennes, très-doubles, superbes, d'un pourpre cramoisi vif.
37. Grandidier. Fleurs très-doubles, grandes, d'un beau rouge carmin, très-belles.
38. Merveille de l'univers. Fleurs très-doubles, grandes, d'un rouge carmin au centre, lilacées au bord des pétales.
39. Superbe. Fleurs très-doubles, grandes, d'un beau rouge, bien faites.
40. Roi de Perse. Fleurs charmantes, moyennes, très-doubles, d'un beau rouge, marginées de violet.
41. Archevêque de Malines. Fleurs très-doubles, grandes, d'un rose foncé, à pétales veinés de rouge, belles, régulièrese
42. Louis XVIII nouveau. Fleurs très-doubles, grandes, d'un beau rouge violet, bien faites, charmantes.

** Fleurs violettes.
43. Évéque, ou bishop. Fleurs d'un pourpre violet, ponctuées de blanc.
44. Ardoisée, Bonaparte, grand Alexandre. Fleurs doubles, grandes, d'un violet intense, peu nombreuses.
45. Impératrice, Kayseriun, Phlégélon. Fleurs très-doubles, d'un pourpre violet très-foncé.
46. Grande ardoisée. Fleurs doubles, grandes, d'un violet intense et strié de blanc.
47. Ninon de l'Enclos. Fleurs très-grandes, régulières, d'un pourpre violet nuancé.
48. Joséphine. Fleurs très-doubles, régulières, violettes, en corymbes de quatre à cinq.
49. Belle équermoise. Fleurs grandes, belles, d'un pourpre violet nuancé.
50. L'enfant de France, le roi de Rome. Fleurs régulières, moyennes, très-doubles, d'un pourpre violet, belles.
51. Duc d'Angoulème. Fleurs violettes,à pétales bordes de blanc.
52. Anémone argentée. Fleurs très-doubles, d'un pourpre violet.
53. Merveilleuse. Fleurs très-doubles, d'un pourpre violet nuancé.
54. Armande. Fleurs très-doubles, régulières, d'un pourpre violet foncé, très-nombreuses.
55. Noire de Holland. Fleurs d'un pourpre violet très-foncé.
56. Terminale. Remarquable par ses fleurs violettes, solitaires au bout des rameaux.
57. De parade. Fleurs grandes, semi-doubles, d'un pourpre violet.
58. Aglaé de Marsilly. Fleurs moyennes, lilas nuancé de violet, nombreuses.
59. Violette de Crémer. Fleurs grandes, très-doubles, à pétales très-serrés et bien disposés.
60. Bizarre flammée. Fleurs moyennes; base des pétales d'un rouge de feu, se fondant et passant au violet clair à mesure qu'il s'approche du sommet.
61. Mort de Virginie. Fleurs superbes, grandes, d'une belle forme , d'un violet foncé.
62. Dupuytren. Fleurs grandes, belles, d'un violet foncé.
63. Grand Apollon. Fleurs très-grandes, doubles, violettes.
64. Méhul. Fleurs très-doubles et grandes, superbes, d'un violet cramoisi.
65. Dubourg. Fleurs très-doubles et très-grandes, d'un violet lilacé, superbes.
66. Lincelle. Fleurs moyennes, très-doubles, d'un beau violet foncé au centre, rougissant sur les bords.
67. Duc de Beaufort. Fleurs très-doubles, moyennes, de belle forme, carmin et violet.
68. Brigitte. Fleurs très-doubles, moyennes, d'un rouge vif au centre et d'un violet ardoisé au bord des pétales.
69. Belle-alliance. Fleurs doubles, moyennes, violettes, marbrées de jaunâtre, très-jolies.

Reply #4 of 9 posted 14 JUN 15 by HMF supporting member

Patricia Routley

Reply #5 of 9 posted 14 JUN 15 by HMF supporting member

scvirginia

Discussion id : 84-838 most recent 11 MAY 15 HIDE POSTS

Initial post 11 MAY 15 by HMF supporting member

Cà Berta

I found a rose very similar to Brooks gallica in Samos (greece). The description is very similar and also the photo	REPLY