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'Madame Boll' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 169-093
most recent 18 NOV HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 18 NOV by odinthor
The quote from 2013 seems to represent the Gardener's Monthly as using the word "unscrupulous" in reference to Boll's roses being sold in France by nurserymen "as one of their own." It was common and accepted practice for nurseries to purchase sole commercial proprietorship of roses and offer them seemingly as their own--which indeed ("their own") they were, being "their own" introductions, the nursery being the sole commercial owner of the variety at the moment of introduction; others might assume that the nursery selling the rose had developed it on its own, but that was others' assumption, not the nursery's claim. Yes, it would certainly have been more forthcoming for nurseries to have told the full story in such cases; but catalog listings comprised--and still comprise--quick descriptions, not encyclopaedia-like entries for historians. At any rate, the Gardener's Monthly did not use the word "unscrupulous."
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Reply #1 of 2 posted 18 NOV by jedmar
Can you please also comment on the statement by Pierre Cochet in Journal des Roses of 1882, that 'Mme Boll' was originated by Boyau in 1856 and introduced in 1859 (repeated in 1886)? The latter date is underpinned by several references. The date of 1858 by Daniel Boll seems to have mentioned by Simon/Cochet in 1899. Is therev any earler reference from American publications. In any case, 1 year from originating in USA to introducing on commercial scale in France seems way too fast.
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Reply #2 of 2 posted 18 NOV by odinthor
Certainly: “When I [Ellwanger] have been asked to name the best very hardy hybrid perpetual I have given ‘Mme. Boll’, a rose of vigorous growth, luxuriant foliage, and carrying very large flowers of a beautiful carmine rose; the flowers, though of a flat type, are finely formed and very full. Rev. S. Reynolds Hole, in his charming book about Roses, well describes ‘Madame Boll, whose foliage alone, with the dew on it, is worth getting up at sunrise to see, but having flowers to correspond, of an immense size, requisite form, and of a clear bright rose color.’ A few days ago I learned that ‘Mme. Boll’ is a rose of American origin, produced from seed by Daniel Boll of New-York, and sold by him to Mons. Bergeau [sic] of Angers, France, by whom it was sent out in 1859. At that time an American rose would have been considered of no value, while a new French variety would bring a good price.” [Country Gentleman, vol. 45, 1880, p. 86]

I should add that Ellwanger was well positioned to have access to good information on New Yorker Boll, as Ellwanger was a resident of New York and a member of the horticultural society.

Hmmm . . . or did you mean a statement of earlier origination date (I thought you meant a quote earlier than Cochet's)? 1856 is all I find.

And some further speculative thoughts as to chronology: Let's say the 1856 dating has some validity, and that it represents first bloom (but at Boll's, not Boyau's). Boll then growing it for a year and determining that it had value, Boll could have then contacted Boyau and made business arangements such that in 1858 Boll supplied Boyau with ample budwood or newly-rooted cuttings such that, in turn, a year later Boyau would have enough stock to sell. Yes, I can see that succession of events as reasonable. I'd also imagine that Boll prudently kept the original plant and one or two propagations from it "just in case" (rather than to have sent Boyau the original plant, only for it to potentially perish on the way).
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Discussion id : 123-752
most recent 7 NOV 20 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 7 NOV 20 by Viviane SCHUSSELE
Epouse de Daniel Boll, rosiériste américain d’origine Suisse 1805 – 1862
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Discussion id : 95-289
most recent 8 OCT 16 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 8 OCT 16 by CybeRose
The Rose: A Treatise on the Cultivation, History, Family Characteristics, etc. p. 272 (1892)
By Henry Brooks Ellwanger

595. Mme. Boll, vig. H.R. Daniel Boll, 1859. (Sent out by Boyeau.) Belongs to the Baronne Prevost type. Carmine-rose; a very effective garden sort; very stout shoots, five leaflets only, there are seven in Boieldieu, a kindred variety.
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