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'Étoile de Hollande, Cl.' rose Reviews & Comments
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Hello HMF Experts,
I have a Cl. Etoile de Hollande own root that I have owned for many years of luscious red nodding fragrant blooms. I started a cutting from this plant about 4 years ago, which blossomed with the same roses until 1 year ago. It is is a pot, not the ground.
Last fall, I noticed an deep ivory white rose on the plant. Since it was a very late season rose I thought it might be a seasonal aberation. This spring and summer this cutting again set forth with the usual red roses. However, at this time of year again it is sporting a deep ivory rose with a light peach center. It is fragrant, but not the rich damask scent of the red color. It is a sweet, fruity citrusy scent.
The parent plant still sets only red roses.
Any idea what is causing this phenomenon?
I am on the central Oregon coast about 1/4 mile from the Pacific ocean. I use organic fertilizer about 3 times per year. My roses get 6-10 hours of direct sunlight.
Thanks for your help.
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#1 of 14 posted
30 SEP 19 by
 jedmar
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Do I understand correctly that the cutting produced red roses until one year ago and now twice the ivory-peach coloured rose? No red roses anymore?
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#2 of 14 posted
30 SEP 19 by
caduceus
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Thanks for your interest. Both last year and this year it produced red roses in the spring and summer, then a single ivory rose in the early fall.
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#3 of 14 posted
2 OCT 19 by
Jay-Jay
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Looks to me, as if You have found a sport. You might give it a name Yourselves. I envy You a little for this find ;-)
The scent of the original Étoile de Hollande Cl. varies and often has a component of citrus too!
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#4 of 14 posted
3 OCT 19 by
caduceus
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That is an intriguing prospect. I will pay more attention to this rose next spring and tend it with propagation in mind. I hope that this turns out to be a stable sport. The fragrance of this white rose is heavenly. I didn't know that Etoile de Hollande Cl. can have a citrusy scent.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me. I will update this post next year on my sport's progress.
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#5 of 14 posted
3 OCT 19 by
HubertG
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It's possible that a small branch has sported but has produced only blind shoots during the spring and summer so that it seems to only produce the pale flowers in autumn.
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#6 of 14 posted
4 OCT 19 by
caduceus
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Thank you for sharing your thoughts on my rose's growth behavior. I will pay close attention next year to what part of the rose produces red flowers and what part produces white flowers. I think the top part of the plant that produced the white flower this year also produced last year's white flower. I just can't say for sure where the red flowers were on the plant this spring and summer.
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No more updates? Was it a sport or not?
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#8 of 14 posted
1 JUL 23 by
caduceus
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Thank you for your interest. It is a sport. An intoxicating meld of beauty and fragrance. It has produced only pearly peach/ivory blooms since the time it bloomed in 2019. The scent of this sport is the same as when it first appeared--a powerful citrusy yet sweet perfume with a bit of Madagascar bourbon vanilla. Not al all like the parent plant. I can smell it from 2 feet away.
The sport does not have vigorous growth like the parent plant--however, it is healthy. It did not produce any flowers last year. We had had a long cold wet spring this year so it has just leafed out.
The parent plant still produces only classic red blooms of Etoile de Hollande Cl.
I would love to share some photos. And would appreciate your thoughts.
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#9 of 14 posted
1 JUL 23 by
Jay-Jay
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It doesn't look to me like Étoile de Hollande at all!
Might there be a mix-up?
Do You have photo's of Your original Étoile de Hollande too?
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#10 of 14 posted
1 JUL 23 by
caduceus
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I have high confidence that this rose plant came from my red Etoile de Hollande Cl. rose plant. Here is why.
I rarely propagate my roses. When I do, I label the cutting as I did with this one.
It has been in a tightly controlled environment in my back yard from the time I started the process to take it from cutting to rooted plant myself. It came from a cutting of my own Etoile de Hollande Cl. plant.
Also, I obtained my own-root parent plant in the early 2000's from either the Uncommon Rose (now closed) in Corvallis Oregon or Heirloom Nursery in St. Paul Oregon. I trust I received a true Etoile de Hollande Cl. as both nurseries had a strong reputation for ensuring all offerings were true to variety.
This cutting from the parent plant had produced the red blooms of this variety only until I noticed that first late season bloom back in September 2018. And it produced red blooms for 1 year again after that, then no more red blooms. Only white.
The bloom still has the nodding characteristic of the parent plant's bloom as the neck is still rather weak.
I will post a photo of the parent plant later.
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Foliage looks pretty characteristic too... I think we could try to compare it with your Etoile d'hollande's foliage, and/or with some other photos of Etoile d'hollande.
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Have you given it a name?
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#13 of 14 posted
3 JUL 23 by
caduceus
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Haven't given it a thought.
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#14 of 14 posted
13 AUG 23 by
caduceus
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Update 8/13/2023 The sport now has 5 buds in various stages of maturity. I plan to let all buds that emerge mature to flowers so I can make sure it produces only white flowers. It was slow to leaf out this year due to a long cold and rainy spring. It is healthy and going for it with new growth.
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Responding to Nadene’s photo of ‘Etoile de Hollande Cl.’ at the Rex Hazlewood Garden.
Nadene, do you see any difference at all between the bush, and the climber?
Billy has mentioned that Ross Roses supplied many of the roses for the Old Parliament House rose garden.
I have a rose that Ross Roses presented to Rose Marsh (the founder of Heritage Roses in Western Australia) in 1994. My climber, a 2001 cutting of this rose, blues. ‘Etoile de Hollande’ is not supposed to blue. I would love to hear of your observations on both the bush and climber.
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#1 of 4 posted
21 FEB 21 by
Nadene
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Hi Patricia, Sorry I missed this post. I will be returning to the gardens soon and will visit the two roses for comparison. Is either the bush or climber known for rootstock suckers. The two climbers in this garden are notorious for this.
Update: The first three photos are of the climber. The last three are of the bush HT. At the moment there is not too many flowers and they are all up the very top of the pillars. I was unable to see any colour change amongst the few that are there. There are not many new canes except the root stock that has snuck through. I will have to keep watching it for you.
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#2 of 4 posted
21 FEB 21 by
Jay-Jay
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For me Étoile de Hollande Cl. blues inside the house. Not in the garden.
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#3 of 4 posted
13 SEP 21 by
Ben H
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That would make sense because I believe the pH of the water in the vase affects the amount of bluing.
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#4 of 4 posted
14 SEP 21 by
Jay-Jay
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The soil in our garden has a higher pH than our tap-water.
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For many years I have been watching Jay-Jay load his very beautiful photos of ‘Etoile de Hollande Cl.’ on to HelpMefind. In front of my Australian computer screen there has often been the envious gnashing of teeth and puzzled lines furrowing the brow. For ‘Etoile de Hollande’ does not blue apparently. In Australia there has been a large blueing rose sent out as ‘Etoile de Hollande Cl.’ and the rose I received under this name originally came from Ross Roses in South Australia. In 1994 Ross Roses donated a Heritage Roses in Australia ‘Scripta award’ in the form of a ‘Etoile de Hollande Cl.’ Rose to Rose Marsh in Kojonup, WA. Mrs. Marsh gave me a cutting of her rose in 2001. I have uploaded Ross Roses photo of ‘Etoile de Hollande Cl.’ from the ‘Australian Rose Annual 1994, page 49 and because of the wavy leaf edge, I have no doubt that it is the same rose I now grow. I think it is a spring-bloomer – I can’t be absolutely sure of this - but all my photos are dated September to December.
I have always doubted the veracity of this rose because it blues so much - only a few times have I seen a sparkling bright red crimson bloom. In 2005 I saw a similar rose (named ‘Etoile de Hollande’[?Cl.] ) in California at the Berkeley Rose Garden where I noted it was purple red big bloom.
‘Gloire de Hollande’ is hovering at the back of my mind. In 1923 Wilhelm Kordes said it had good growth and that it sometimes blued. But there were many old roses which blued and I am just not sure which one my rose actually is.
[Later edit (Nov 23, 2017). My photos deleted from the 'Etoile de Hollande Cl.' file. My rose may be 'Hadley Cl.' but I need more proof.]
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#1 of 14 posted
21 APR 14 by
Jay-Jay
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Hi Patricia,
I didn't know You were so "envious" of my rose. ;-)
It never blued my Cl. Étoile de Hollande''.... In contrary: in warm sunny weather, the flowers get a more bright-red colour. (the same for the non climbing version until now)
In cooler conditions the flower(bud)s are darker. It is a reliant repeat-bloomer, that is one of the first and one of the last. Four or five flushes, but almost never without flowers. It blooms on new as on old and older wood.
'Winschoten' is the rose in our garden, that has the blues "badly'. At first a negative for me, but the scent is formidable!
I hope and wish for You, that there once might be a real Cl. Étoile de Hollande for You in Australia, for when I were allowed to keep just one rose out of my garden... it would be this rose!
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Thanks Jay-Jay. Both you and I grow about 55 roses in common and I am always interested in your photographs. - you have such a beautiful garden. Your love for your ‘Etoile de Hollande’ comes across loud and clear in your photos and comments. (Your foliage looks a little more elongated than my round foliage). I am sure the real non-blueing ‘Etoile de Hollande’ is in Australia somewhere. I just wanted to alert Australians that if their plant blues, then perhaps they should question the veracity
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#4 of 14 posted
22 APR 14 by
Jay-Jay
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Thank You for Your kind words Patricia.
I will make some photo's of the foliage. The stiff, but brittle blueish red new growth (of canes) is typical for this rose.
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#5 of 14 posted
24 APR 14 by
Jay-Jay
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Some promised photo's of the foliage/leaves, one bud and to detox... The first spray of flowerbuds in years on my plant.
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Jay-Jay - those photos were so helpful. I think I might be wrong and that I might just have the real 'Etoile de Hollande' after all. Your photos of the leaves are round (as mine are) and have that pointed tip (as mine do). and they have the new red leaves (as mine do) and the rare new canes are purple-ish. I have on occasions seen the occasional bright red crimson bloom here, but mostly it "blues". My plant is fairly near the septic tank in a lawn and it is surrounded by stiff clay. Perhaps it just goes blue with indigestion. I might take a cutting and put it elsewhere. Thank you my friend.
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#7 of 14 posted
25 APR 14 by
Jay-Jay
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You're welcome Patricia.
I might have given You an "overkill" of photo's of the foliage, but it did no harm, I suppose.
I can delete some, if they take too much space.
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#8 of 14 posted
2 MAY 14 by
Jay-Jay
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To my surprise, it turns blue-ish after some days, when cut and on a vase. Not turning into blue-ish when on the plant and in bright sunlight.
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#2 of 14 posted
21 APR 14 by
Jay-Jay
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PS: You uploaded photo's of Your rose, but it looks familiar as for habit, colour of the new canes, the laterals with flowers, the buds (are they a bit felty, where they open?) look-a-like and the leafs.
But the whitish reverse of the petals is unfamiliar. And the petals mostly do not curl that much, so no starshaped flowers.
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jay-jay: Really appreciate the info. you gave on this rose. How big does it get after your zone 6 winter? Does the fragrance perfume the entire room? Thanks for any info.
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#10 of 14 posted
16 NOV 16 by
Jay-Jay
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After a zone 6 winter, it isn't harmed at all and has to be pruned and (partially) be trained again.
Best prune it during the season too, for it grows laterals meters long! Or let it climb as high as 10 m! (take a look at this photo of Jedmar: http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/pics.php?imgID=187040 at an earlier discussion started November 18 2011)
But I wouldn't recommend that.
Just take a look at earlier photo's of mine after the zone 5 winter of 2012. (2012-04-24 )
It froze badly, had to cut it back to approximately 25cm, but came back vividly and grew over 3 meters per cane. See follow-up photo's!
That the lower part survived, was due to covering leaves and a pile of snow.
In Your region, I wouldn't train it on a metal fence or structure, but on a wooden structure, pole or tie it to plasticized steel-wire. (see photo)
And yes, the fragrance perfumes the entire room, when the flowers are cut at the right time. (not in blazing sunlight and not when completely opened)
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Thank you for the info. There are very few roses that can perfume the entire room, Comte de Chambord, Duchess de Rohan, Annie L. McDowell, Firefighter, Dee-lish are the few that can. One zone 5b person grows E. de Hollande, so I hope that can survive my zone 5a winter.
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#12 of 14 posted
23 NOV 17 by
Jay-Jay
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Patricia, I saw Your today's edit of the original post and wanted to update my experience:
'Étoile de Hollande Cl.' only blued just a little for me after a few days, when cut for the vase and brought inside.
Outdoors it never blued and in fact it got a lighter red color in hot sunny periods.
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That is very nice of you Jay-Jay. My plant blued very much - far too much for it to be the 'Etoile de Hollande' it came to me as. With time passing and more reading, I believe my plant could be 'Hadley Cl.' which did have a reputation for blueing. The pear-shaped hips of my plant also seem to be very close to those of 'Hadley' ("Bishop's Lodge Muriel Linton") which Margaret Furness uploaded.
It is interesting to look where Hadley & Etoile de Hollande came from.
Hadley 1914 (Liberty x Richmond) x General MacArthur.
Etoile de Hollande 1919 (General MacArthur x Hadley)
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#14 of 14 posted
23 NOV 17 by
Jay-Jay
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Interesting indeed and so close related!
A deputizing (?) is easily made. I wouldn't call that a mistake.
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'Étoile de Hollande climbing' does very well in cool damp climates. This rose grows in a very small bed it shares with a Hydrangea. There is almost no blackspot and it flowers very well despite growing on a north facing wall.
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