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'Havlíčkova národní' rose Reviews & Comments
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What a striking rose! 'Eugène Fürst' sported 'Baron Girod de l'Ain' which in turn sported 'Havlíčkova Národní' the first two are listed as Hybrid-Perpetuals but 'Havlíčkova Národní' seems to have become a Gallica / Provins, Hybrid Perpetual, Shrub.
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#1 of 3 posted
11 FEB 18 by
Eisrose
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Please read references.
There you can read that he send roses of his origin but this wasn't true. The varieties where still existing old ones re-named from him.
So maybe Havlickova is Roger Lambelin??? I haven't seen both in person but pictures on HMF are really similar
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Thank you for your reply. I have read the references and comments, 'Havlíčkova Národní' may well be 'Roger Lambelin'. 'Roger Lambelin is a hybrid perpetual not a "Gallica / Provins, Hybrid Perpetual, Shrub" as 'Havlíčkova Národní' is stated as being on its profile.
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Roger Lambelin can look like this at times. I don't know whether this rose, or Roger Lambelin Striped (1953), are permanently striped.
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Available from - Praskac
https://www.praskac.at/rosen
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In my opinion, there are 3 completely different roses pictured/photographed and uploaded to HMF for this rose.... Even the leaves look different (serration) to me, as far as I can see.
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Completely setting aside member Krazneruze photo labelled 'K. H. Borovsky' at the moment, and looking more closely at the other photos, I find:
All vertical striped photos are called 'Havlíčkova národní' by the photographers. Photos were taken at Rosarium Baden and Sangerhausen.
All horizontal striped photos are called 'Nase Národni' by the photographers. All photos were taken at Sangerhausen.
Marita Protte is the only photographer who shows both the horizontal and the vertical striped roses. It would be interesting to hear from her where the vertical striped photo was taken, and if there were two different bushes.
It is appearing to me that 'Nase Národni', the horizontal striped rose, is the renaming of 'Baron Girod de l'Ain', which was reissued by Böhm.
and 'Havlíčkova národní' is the vertical striped sport discovered by Böhm.
This does not align with the 2013 reference, but sits well with the two 2005 references.
Can anyone tell us what Nase and Havlíčkova translate to?
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#2 of 3 posted
4 JUL 16 by
 Jay-Jay
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I found out, that Havlíčkova Borová is a very small town 16 km east of the town Havlíčkův Brod (former in German language Brod) But no translation. Nase seems to mean the possessive pronoun "our"... and Národni means National.
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Thank you very much Jay-Jay.
As I see it, these merges need to take place:
'Nase Narodni' with 'Baron Girod de l'Ain'.
Havlickova Narodni' with 'Baron Girod de l'Ain sport striped'
And 'K. H. Borovsky' with C.S.R.
I'll do those tomorrow if nobody objects.
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Jiří Sekera: Böhm růže Blatná, 2013, Vydalo město Blatná, page 134: sport from ´Baron Girod de l´Ain´, synonymum: ´Havlíčkova národní´, Naše národní´, semidouble dark red petals with white rugged-clipped edges,
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I don’t know how I missed this one Vladimir.
I have merged ‘K. H. Borovsky’, ‘Havlíčkova národní’ and ‘Nase Národni’ but am now not really confident that it was the right thing to do. Then there is the question that should they all be merged with ‘Baron Girod de l´Ain'….
I note the photo of ‘K. H. Borovsky’ by member Krasneruze is different from the others – ‘CSR’?
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#2 of 3 posted
16 NOV 15 by
Ophrys26
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'Havlíčkova národni = 'Baron Girod de l'Ain sport' ?
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Very possibly. Thinking out aloud here.... We have:
'Fisher Holmes' 1865
'Prince Camille de Rohan' 1861
'Eugene Furst' 1875
'Roger Lambelin' 1890. Sport of 'Prince Camille de Rohan' - or of 'Fisher Holmes'.
'Baron Girod de l'Ain' 1897. Sport of 'Eugene Furst'.
'Havlickova Narodni' / Nase Narodni / K. H. Borovsky (and possibly 'Baron Girod de l'Ain Sport (striped)' which is not yet merged) 1935.
It seems that the original Roger and Baron both had a fine (?horizontal) white piping.
At some stage a rose appeared with large vertical stripes down the petal.
The questions are - what rose did it sport from? Roger or Baron?
And what is the sport's name?
As an addendum, James Young / David Ruston in The Joy of Roses, p266, show an almost identical photo to that of member Moonfall's photo of 'Havlickova Narodni', but they call it 'Roger Lambelin'.
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